FOURTH MDIA Div. A Top 25 Poll is out (4/5/06)!

[Danny Hogan]

but as we can see on these boards, there is quite a bit of dissension over the placement of teams in these polls

i think you are giving most of the dissenters too much credit.

[OAKS]

I don't think that the relatively few people on here griping about polls is indicative of the league as a whole. I think for the most part people are very happy with the current polling system and for the past 6 years that I've been following the MDIA it seems that the final poll determining the national championship field has been a pretty darn good one. Even with college football and basketball, who put tons of time and money into lots of different polls, you still have a few people griping. I'm sure the people on here who might complain about a few spots will most likely say the system as a whole throughout the season is a good one.

[CATLAX MAN]

Now if your complaint is that I did not outline this system and it's logistics of implementation, then you are right...I did not do that.

That is exactly what my complaint is. You seem to interpret that the vocal minority's opinion that doesn't think this poll works well is shared by most people. That view is certainly not shared by the leadership of this organization and I would tend to agree with them.

If you can devise a system that is better complete with exactly how it will be implemented, then please submit that to the Exec. Board.

As a postscript, Mark Twain once said "There are three kind of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." That just about sums it up.

[Lefty]

What's funny to me is that we give certain teams "passes" for their losses (BYU, Cal Poly) but other teams we hold onto their losses and drag them out every time a new poll comes out (Chapman, ASU, Utah). And let's be honest, the majority of people posting in here have an agenda including me.

BYU beat Michigan and FSU both in the top 10, and has had nothing but very close losses to good teams. Poly beat 2 teams in the top 10 and had losses to 3 in the top 10 and 2 ranked below both in the OT.

Champan, ASU, and UTAH have had some bad losses

You keep wanting teams to drop in ranking due to a loss, but you don't mention who should be ranked ahead of them, are you saying BYU doesn't deserve their ranking??? Whos should be ahead of them??

[AIRTERP]

Wow...now I have a taste of what it must feel like to be a celebrity or an athlete and have your comments quoted out of context.

Please allow my to clear just a few things up.

First and foremost, I ABSOLUTELY respect the work of the pollsters. They do the best they can and I acknowledge that. I have taken extra care in my posts to not discredit or attack the pollsters in any way, and if a single pollster feels differently please let me know, as that was certainly not my intention. I have simply voiced a hypothetical alternative system, which I believe to be a good idea to explore.

Next, I have made an effort to stress everything I have posted is "my opinion." I commented that there was "a lot of dissension on the message board." Which there is. Conversely, there is also a great deal of support for the current system. I have made no determination as to which opinion is more widely supported. Any extrapolation of my opinions as reflecting the opinions of the MDIA as a whole or any faction thereof was done by other message board posters...not by me. So let's not clump me with anyone else. I only represent myself, and believe me at times I even do that poorly.

And finally to boil down my posts to the simplest points: 1. I believe a hybrid system that combines both the polls as well as statistics would be a more effective system because it would allow for checks and balances for both the poll vote as well as the statistics. 2. The pollsters’ job is very difficult; they are unable to see all the projected top 25 teams. I believe adding a hybrid system would help them, as well as make the rankings more accurate and efficient. 3. Finally, in the end I am actually trying to protect the pollsters because if there was a hybrid system in place, any dissension or blame with rankings immediately shifts from the poll voters to the system. And of course as an orginization, the MDIA would try to improve the system every year based on constructive feedback.

So I hope this clears up any confusion as to my motives or intentions or the huddled masses that I allegedly represent.

Now perhaps this "hybrid model" theory will become the focus of discussion rather than being dismissed because of other issues taken with my posts. It is simply a theory and I am certainly not claiming to be an expert. But a theory can be discussed very effectively without exact blue prints on how exactly it will be implemented. Especially since part of the debate should include ideas and hypotheticals on how the system may or may not be implemented. I would love to hear people's opinions of the idea of a checks and balances system combining polls as well as stats, because I truly believe this might be an improved system that could be used. And I hope to inspire an intelligent discussion with solid arguments focused on the pros and cons of the system rather than erroneous quotes.

Now CATLAX, I selected my words carefully because what is above is exactly what I wanted to say. But as a postscript for you, in no way do I mean any disrespect to you. Yes, I disagree with your opinions in your latest posts, as perhaps you do mine, but I have shared many of your opinions in the past and enjoy your posts. And you may have even inspired me to take a harder look at the system I proposed and see if I can't come up with some specifics. I look forward to your thoughts on the theory. No love lost...I hope.

[CATLAX MAN]

No love lost...I hope.

None at all. I was trying to express my frustration with all of the people who come on here and say that this system doesn't work and the pollsters are nuts, blah, blah, blah, but don't offer any way to improve the system in a workable fashion. You did not do that, but I used your comment . . .admittedly out of context. . . as a linchpin to vent my frustrations with these posters. Sorry you had to be the whipping boy here.

That being said, I think using statistics as a factor in polling or seeding teams is just not the way to go. I think it potentially sets up the environment to encourage teams to run up scores and not to get their less used players into non-competitive games. Looking at stats doesn't always tell the story about a game or a team that plays that game. I have personally witnessed a number of the top teams take the foot off the accelerator when they've had a game in hand early. Statistics usually do not matter to coaches, but making it a factor in polling might change that.

[TMcCourt]

How is Northeastern ranked behind Oakland and Minnesota after beating both of them by 5 and 9 respectively?

[Jolly Roger]

How is Northeastern ranked behind Oakland and Minnesota after beating both of them by 5 and 9 respectively?

Minnesota (unranked) and Minnesota-Duluth (ranked) are 2 different teams.

[univduke21]

Wow there has been a lot of shake up since the last poll.
1. Colorado State- Just kept winning no reason to move them.
2. Sonoma State- Same as above
3. Michigan- Same as above
4. UCSB- lost to Arizona
5. UCSD- lost to Arizona State
6. BYU- Beat Oregon
7. Oregon- Lost to BYU
8. Colorado- beat Utah and Oakland
9. Florida State- beat Chapman
10. Cal Poly- Beat Oregon, lost to Sonoma State
11. Arizona- Lost to UCSD, beat UCSB
12. Lindenwood- beat Missouri State
13. Utah- Lost to Colorado and Colorado State
14. Va Tech- won against 2 unranked opponents
15. Minnesota Duluth- no games recorded
While the top 3 should stay the same it will be interesting to see what the voters do with spots 4 through 11. How far if at all do UCSB, UCSD and Oregon fall? How far to BYU, Colorado and Arizona move up? And who gets those last two at-large bids?

[Rob Graff]

UMD won both league games this past weekend v. unranked opponents.

[Bluevelvet]

uinivduke21- alot of what you posted happened before the last poll.

Some upsets already and it is only 4 days since the last poll. New Top 10 as of 4/9.

1. CSU- beat Oakland and Utah
2. SSU-beat TAMU
3. Michigan (still think they are the best team in the MDIA)
4. BYU- beat Oregon by 8
5. UCSB-upset by AZ but easily beat ranked ASU; both on the road.
6. Colorado- beat Utah. Can't put them ahead of UCSB after the recent 14-6 loss.
7. UCSD- another 1 goal upset loss; this one to division B rival USD
8. Oregon- lost again; @ BYU and it was not close
9. Arizona- beat #4 UCSB
10. FSU beat #20 Chapman 11-9 @ home

[grinderpete]

I guess mine is a little bit different but not much.

1-CSU
2-SSU
3- UMICH
4- BYU
5-UCSB
6-CU
7- UA
8-OREGON
9- FSU
10-UCSD

And i guess I will add in my next 5
11- LU
12- UMD
13- UU
14- POLY
15 - NE

[Bluevelvet]

Nah, come on, Pete. UCSD shouldn't fall that far. They lost to Michigan. Plus SSU by one, ASU by one and USD by one. USD is the #1 B division team. They are very good. All the losses were close.
No way they fall from #5 to #10 for a loss to the #1 B team in the country and a traditional rival. They are 9-4 with the #6 SOS in the country. They play a tough schedule and they don't get blown out. They should be ahead of FSU and Oregon and they just beat Arizona last weekend.

[grinderpete]

Nah, come on, Pete. UCSD shouldn't fall that far. They lost to Michigan. Plus SSU by one, ASU by one and USD by one. USD is the #1 B division team. They are very good. All the losses were close.
No way they fall from #5 to #10 for a loss to the #1 B team in the country and a traditional rival. They are 9-4 with the #6 SOS in the country. They play a tough schedule and they don't get blown out. They should be ahead of FSU and Oregon and they just beat Arizona last weekend.

2 bad loses in a row should drop them that far. I really should have put Oregon at 9 and FSU at 8 because Oregon is not playing great ball right now either.
I know that USD is good, maybe even great, but they wouldn't come close to beating anyone else in the top ten of Div A. I know that it is a rivalry game, but I saw them play last year, and I have seen quite a few Div B games this year, and that is a bad loss. If you lose to them then you have major weaknesses. And that puts you at the bottom of the Top Ten. Now when they play great, then they can be top 5 maybe even the best, but right now, they are #10. That is the thing about this year. It really depends on how you are playing lately. So many questionable teams in the 4-12 range, that 1 week of bad play can send you to the bottom of that pile.

[Maple Leaf]

Nah, come on, Pete. UCSD shouldn't fall that far. They lost to Michigan. Plus SSU by one, ASU by one and USD by one. USD is the #1 B division team. They are very good. All the losses were close.
No way they fall from #5 to #10 for a loss to the #1 B team in the country and a traditional rival. They are 9-4 with the #6 SOS in the country. They play a tough schedule and they don't get blown out. They should be ahead of FSU and Oregon and they just beat Arizona last weekend.

2 bad loses in a row should drop them that far. I really should have put Oregon at 9 and FSU at 8 because Oregon is not playing great ball right now either.
I know that USD is good, maybe even great, but they wouldn't come close to beating anyone else in the top ten of Div A. I know that it is a rivalry game, but I saw them play last year, and I have seen quite a few Div B games this year, and that is a bad loss. If you lose to them then you have major weaknesses. And that puts you at the bottom of the Top Ten. Now when they play great, then they can be top 5 maybe even the best, but right now, they are #10. That is the thing about this year. It really depends on how you are playing lately. So many questionable teams in the 4-12 range, that 1 week of bad play can send you to the bottom of that pile.

pete, how can you claim that it is a bad loss, you have no idea if they could hang with other top ten A teams, they played 2 A teams this year, and won both games. They dominated usc 15-3, and beat ucsd. Until usd and other top B teams play more top level A teams, you don't know how the divisions stack up. I'm not saying usd would consistantly be able to beat top 10 A teams, but it shouldn't matter, division A has their championship, and so does division B. ucsd has beaten ucsb and arizona, which is more than the teams ranked 6-10 can say