FOURTH MDIA Div. A Top 25 Poll is out (4/5/06)!

[Timbalaned]

I also feel that the results of the ASU vs. UCSD game were not reflected in this poll. ASU moved up two positions, yet gained a bit of point totals. UCSD remained in the same position. Seems like ASU's win was a bit ignored. Although ASU still has UCSB and Arizona coming up and can still make a big impact, and show the pollsters what they got.

I was wondering the same thing...

ASU almost doubled their point total since the last poll --- going from 140 points to 269 points. Some of you guys are too preoccupied with poll position. You should be more concerned with overall point totals.

Valid point, but to continue with that idea then

UCSD 610 to 603
Oregon 616 to 566

Poly 358 to 452
ASU 140 to 269

how does that one work?

[Sonny]

Points are nice, but they won't get you to Dallas!

The only thing that will guarantee you a slot in Dallas is a No. 12 spot (or higher) in the final Top 25 poll on Monday night, May 1st. Until then, frankly, the polls don't matter.

When people complain about Team X being ranked too high, I often wonder about their "agenda." If you think a team shouldn't be ranked at a certain position in the poll... at least tell us who should be ranked ahead of them so we know where you are coming from.

[WaterBoy]

I think Sonny has this one square on- the point totals really do mean a good deal, especially once you start getting lower in the polls. The reason that some of the higher teams may not have moved down was because there may not have been another team to take their place above them.

I think when you look at the polls this year, and the teams in general, there are about three tiers of teams- those in about the top 7 or 8, those from about 15 to 9, and then those 16 and below (and these numbers are just ones that I picked out of my head, so don't get mad that I put team X in some tier- this is just a hairbrained theory). The problem this creates is that when a team loses, it can be very difficult to figure out who should then be above them. Debatably there is even a fourth, with just the top three teams. Taking those three as an example, let's assume Michigan (#3) lost to say... cal poly (#10), who would then take their place? Would Michigan drop? This question would be simple if Poly were #4.

The way the points work out, Poly would most likely be awarded for their win, and Michigan not punished to an equal extent in the rankings. That's how you explain something like the poll results from the ASU UCSD game, where UCSD loses points but no ranking, and ASU gains points and ranking.

[cardylax22]

Points are nice, but they won't get you to Dallas!

The only thing that will guarantee you a slot in Dallas is a No. 12 spot (or higher) in the final Top 25 poll on Monday night, May 1st. Until then, frankly, the polls don't matter.





regardless of the point situation asu beat a number 5 team and legitamately deserved a higher spot. Arizona on the other hand lost to the same team and stayed about steady. Looks like ASU needs to beat Arizona again to become "visible".

[CATLAX MAN]

I beg to differ, cardy. Arizona State was properly rewarded. IMO, they are lucky to even be that high, based on what I've seen of them.

[steveperry]

Points are important, and the last poll is all that matters. BUT, when teams are over-ranked all season, it is hard to drop them too far in the last poll, which is when ranking do matter:

-#12 Lindenwood- we debate them often. Based on today's poll, they beat the #17 and #19 teams in the country. They lost to #11, #3. No more ranked games, easy league. Does #12 make sense to anyone? Maybe in the 14-16 range would be better?

-#14 Virginia Tech - Still so confused how this team is in the top 16 with no wins over any ranked teams. A close game against FSU is still a lost game. They are the only team in the top 16 with no ranked wins.

-#16 Georgia Tech - only ranked win against the #21 team. Two loses to ranked teams. Would think that maybe 17-19 would be a good spot for them.

The biggest thing that is clear when looking at the polls is that voters give much more credit to big wins over loses (especially to lesser teams) in most cases, but not all.

When Cal Poly lost to two teams ranked behind them, they moved up one spot. Win over Oregon moves them up even more, but the question is why they didn't move back from those 2 loses?

When Chapman beat the #11 (by , #21 (by 5) and #23 (by 7) and then lost by one to the #5 team all in one week, they moved up 3 spots to only #17 (they were dropped to number 20 the poll before for losing to #22 UCLA and #18 ASU (by 1 like UCSD, good to see they didn't move that far). I really thought that even with a one goal loss to an unranked team, that pollsters would remember how poorly they placed them in the last poll, and maybe keep them the same.

Not sure how Utah could be behind Lindenwood right now either. Despite losses to Chapman (by 7), unranked chico state (by 1, and I thought they would drop back to 20 for that, right?), and Duluth (by 1), they beat the #11 and #10 teams in the country, both of which they are behind.

I am excited to see how the RMLC league games play out, because that could really shake things up. How about another upset in the WCLL (maybe an unranked Santa Clara beats Poly, ASU over Arizona?). Be interesting to see Chapman beat FSU and have 6 ranked wins in their pocket, or if Oakland can upset any RMLC teams next weekend, maybe Oregon over BYU? Who knows what can happen at this point.

[Blue99]

All i have to say is WOW, after the top 3 who in no doubt should be the top 3 you might as well roll the dice, for the rest of the top 15, Everybody is beating everybody, this is fantastic for competition, but probably somebody is going to feel they are getting "screwed" in the polls, for the top 15, everybody has a claim to fame, "I might have lost to this team, but i beat this team" Its all coming down to who shows up for that game. And those top 3 are first off not undefeated, and secondly not winning by 10 goals against the other teams. There has been some VERY close games. The polls are more meaningless right now then i have ever seen them. If your the number 5 team you better look out if your playing anybody from 1-15. This is great i can't wait to see how the rest of the year pans out. Good luck to everybody

[steveperry]

All i have to say is WOW, after the top 3 who in no doubt should be the top 3 you might as well roll the dice, for the rest of the top 15, Everybody is beating everybody, this is fantastic for competition, but probably somebody is going to feel they are getting "screwed" in the polls, for the top 15, everybody has a claim to fame, "I might have lost to this team, but i beat this team" Its all coming down to who shows up for that game. And those top 3 are first off not undefeated, and secondly not winning by 10 goals against the other teams. There has been some VERY close games. The polls are more meaningless right now then i have ever seen them. If your the number 5 team you better look out if your playing anybody from 1-15. This is great i can't wait to see how the rest of the year pans out. Good luck to everybody

Your speak the truth! Coudn't agree with you more.

[Blue99]

Joker, your looking at every detail in great depth, I'm curious though as to what teams you have SEEN play. I believe these voters have seen many of these teams play and once you see a bunch of these teams play and the skill on the field you get a better picture of where these teams really belong. Any team can have a bad game against an unranked opponent especially in this league where the talent varies so much, and also when you have road trips and invitationals, where you play 3 games in a weekend. Some of these teams have proven themselves to be good over years, and a one or two losses is not going to sway voters away from thinking they are good BYU for example has lost to lesser teams and played very good teams competitively. The poll must show more than just numbers, numbers is what Laxpower is for. If you look there you can really see how just looking at numbers is a flimsy way of looking at things especially at this point in the season

[Lefty]

-#14 Virginia Tech - Still so confused how this team is in the top 16 with no wins over any ranked teams. A close game against FSU is still a lost game

This negates your argument about chapmans 2 close loses to top ranked teams meriting a higher ranking. You also neglect your close win against santa clara. Chapman is probably the hardest team to rank, but in an earlier post you mentioned that loses and wins since the last poll matter. And Chapman lost a tough one to low ranked LMU.


On the flip side the ASU loss doesn't look so bad anymore. And for the record I have no idea how you rank a team like chapman.

[steveperry]

This negates your argument about chapmans 2 close loses to top ranked teams meriting a higher ranking.


Not really, unlike v tech, they have beat 5 ranked teams this year.

And yes, they are very hard to rank this year.

"Joker, your looking at every detail in great depth, I'm curious though as to what teams you have SEEN play. I believe these voters have seen many of these teams play and once you see a bunch of these teams play and the skill on the field you get a better picture of where these teams really belong."


I have seen about 2/3 of the top 25 play this year, and I do agree that you get a better idea by watching teams. But, the numbers are what is really important, otherwise this is a popularity contest, which I don't think it is. If a pollster has seen a certain team play a lot, and think they are solid, but they have not one a single ranked game, being solid does not put them in the top 16 amongs other teams that have.

[Danny Hogan]

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[CATLAX MAN]

One thing that is clear is that Chapman was primed to make a move up in the polls until that mis-step against LMU. That could cost them a tourney invite, even if they beat FSU.

[Bluevelvet]

UCSD was poised to take over the #4 spot after Oregon lost 2 games. But when they lost to ASU they dropped from #4 to #5. So they were punished one spot by their loss.
None of this was on paper (UCSD never was actually #4) but had they beaten both AZ and ASU, they would be the #4 team today.

[steveperry]

UCSD was poised to take over the #4 spot after Oregon lost 2 games. But when they lost to ASU they dropped from #4 to #5. So they were punished one spot by their loss.
None of this was on paper (UCSD never was actually #4) but had they beaten both AZ and ASU, they would be the #4 team today.

No question about that. Hopefully no more let downs for them this season.