Bad News for Duke

[JosueSays]

"I see the race card is getting played now. If these allegations prove to be true, I want to make it clear that rape is rarely about a persons race and it is always about violence!!!!!!"

Sorry, I had to reply after reading the thoughtlessness, and ignorance, of this post. The race card being played? Of course it is! The report said that racial slurs were being yelled at the two dancers. If you think that's hard to believe, then you obviously do not know much about today's youths. I may just be a Freshman in college, but even i have been insulted because of my race. I love the game of lacrosse, and almost all of the lacrosse players I meet, i like, but i have encountered many players who were rich, spoiled, white kids that held no respect for anyone that wasn't like them. Though I am sure that Lacrosse has nothing to do with racism; it is the United States, as a whole, that has a lot of social issues to fixl. In that sense, I think racism, and hate crimes, do exist and are much more common than people would like to believe.

Also, what you say bout rape being about violence is false. Evidence suggests that most rapes are about control.

[Lax_Stats]

"I see the race card is getting played now. If these allegations prove to be true, I want to make it clear that rape is rarely about a persons race and it is always about violence!!!!!!"

Sorry, I had to reply after reading the thoughtlessness, and ignorance, of this post. The race card being played? Of course it is! The report said that racial slurs were being yelled at the two dancers. If you think that's hard to believe, then you obviously do not know much about today's youths. I may just be a Freshman in college, but even i have been insulted because of my race. I love the game of lacrosse, and almost all of the lacrosse players I meet, i like, but i have encountered many players who were rich, spoiled, white kids that held no respect for anyone that wasn't like them. Though I am sure that Lacrosse has nothing to do with racism; it is the United States, as a whole, that has a lot of social issues to fixl. In that sense, I think racism, and hate crimes, do exist and are much more common than people would like to believe.

Also, what you say bout rape being about violence is false. Evidence suggests that most rapes are about control.

You certainly showed your youth and ignorance with this response! The allegations here are NOT about a racially motivated hate crime!!! They are about sexual assault and rape!!! No investigation whatsoever is being done in regards to any sort of race crime!!! They are being done in regards to to an alleged sex crime!!! Everything here would be the same with the exception of the racial protests if the alleged victims were white!! This to me appears to be just another excuse at this point to take advantage of the fact that the alleged victims are African American and turn this into a race issue when that is not what this is about at all!!! Racially motivated hate crimes are a horrible, ignorant act IMO, but this situation is NOT what this is about!!! If this was about the alleged racial slurs, there would be no investigation, thee would be no cancelled games, there would be no national news coverage. Why???? Because calling someone a racially derogatory name is NOT against the law!!!! It is stupid, it is childish, it shows ignorance and a complete lack of respect for another human being, BUT, it is NOT against the law!!!

Perhaps when it comes to rape being about violence or control, you might want to ask a female who has been raped if she more feared being controlled or the violence she was experiencing?!?!?!

[Campbell]

"I see the race card is getting played now. If these allegations prove to be true, I want to make it clear that rape is rarely about a persons race and it is always about violence!!!!!!"

Sorry, I had to reply after reading the thoughtlessness, and ignorance, of this post. The race card being played? Of course it is! The report said that racial slurs were being yelled at the two dancers. If you think that's hard to believe, then you obviously do not know much about today's youths. I may just be a Freshman in college, but even i have been insulted because of my race. I love the game of lacrosse, and almost all of the lacrosse players I meet, i like, but i have encountered many players who were rich, spoiled, white kids that held no respect for anyone that wasn't like them. Though I am sure that Lacrosse has nothing to do with racism; it is the United States, as a whole, that has a lot of social issues to fixl. In that sense, I think racism, and hate crimes, do exist and are much more common than people would like to believe.

Also, what you say bout rape being about violence is false. Evidence suggests that most rapes are about control.

You certainly showed your youth and ignorance with this response! The allegations here are NOT about a racially motivated hate crime!!! They are about sexual assault and rape!!! No investigation whatsoever is being done in regards to any sort of race crime!!! They are being done in regards to to an alleged sex crime!!! Everything here would be the same with the exception of the racial protests if the alleged victims were white!! This to me appears to be just another excuse at this point to take advantage of the fact that the alleged victims are African American and turn this into a race issue when that is not what this is about at all!!! Racially motivated hate crimes are a horrible, ignorant act IMO, but this situation is NOT what this is about!!! If this was about the alleged racial slurs, there would be no investigation, thee would be no cancelled games, there would be no national news coverage. Why???? Because calling someone a racially derogatory name is NOT against the law!!!! It is stupid, it is childish, it shows ignorance and a complete lack of respect for another human being, BUT, it is NOT against the law!!!

Perhaps when it comes to rape being about violence or control, you might want to ask a female who has been raped if she more feared being controlled or the violence she was experiencing?!?!?!

I wouldn't qualify this as a racial hate crime, but to exclude the fact that race was a factor is ignorant, IMO. Anyone you view as lesser than you is going to affect the degree of remorse you feel about committing acts against them, and thus impair the moral judgement you make prior to committing an act.

[Lax_Stats]

I am not excluding race as a factor, but from everything I have heard so far, it seems like race was a more minor issue here than any where close to the major issue. However, not being in the heads of the persons making the racial slurs, and not knowing if ANY racial slurs were in fact actually made at all, I am focusing in more on the issue at hand and not the minor issue here that carries no charges.

[JosueSays]

wow.


OKay, of course rape is VIOLENT, but it is not done FOR violence. Many rapists rape because they feel in control when they are raping someone
AKA the power-assertive rapist. Here's some information about them and notice how a lot of the information correllates with the kind of people that raped the dancers(also, most power-assertive rapists do not intend to kill their victims, but instead humiliate and traumatize them): "This is argued to be the most common type of rapist, accounting for about 40 percent of all reported rapes. Wishing to be an alpha male, he tends to value machismo and physical aggression, and often rapes victims that he meets in places like bars, where he may pose as, or be, an authority figure."

Obviously this is about RAPE, but the rape could have been influenced by race. As for this being an excuse for another race related issue... Well, that's just ridiculous. The reason I brought up race, and why race COULD be a factor, is because in all the articles they talk about how they yelled racial slurs at the dancers. I don't see how pointing out the fact that it COULD be a race related crime shows the signs of my youth or ignorance. To me, it seems like a logical conclusion: Rapists hurl racial slurs at two African American dancers, rape, and beat them. My point was merely that race could have played a part of the crimes, and I think, by the what the victims said, it is safe to say that is possible(I also never called this particular incident a hate crime, that was your own fabrication). Also, your accusation that this is all some ploy to turn this terrible incident into a race issue is not only ignorant, but typical. The fact that you believe someone, who would gain absolutely nothing from making it a racial issue, would even THINK about taking advantage of such a terrible thing is ridiculous. How about instead of making frantic accusations and immature rebuttals; you start explaining why race COULDN'T have played a part of the rape?

One more thing, putting a lot of exclamation and question marks after everything you say does not make you sound more convincing. If anything, it certainly shows your immaturity (despite however old you are).

[laxfan25]

Sorry, but I have to believe that JosueSays has as much right to post his thoughts as anyone else. While you guys may not agree on every point, I think we're all in agreement that rape is a vile crime, whether it stems from violence or a desire for control excercised through violence, and that the potential victims deserve our compassion more than the potential perpetrators.
I was a little shocked and disturbed to see the NCAA National Coordinator of Officials weigh in on the subject in a memo to all college lacrosse officials;
On an entirely different note each of us is well aware of the serious circumstances surrounding the allegations confronting the Duke University team. It would do well if in whatever way we can, we show some compassion for and with those people with whom we interact in our sport throughout this difficult time. Think about it and do it in the best way you are able. Thank you for your attention.
I'm glad to see he's concerned about the feelings of the Duke lacrosse family, but how about a word for the victims? Very disappointing, and inappropriate in my mind in the placement in an official memo.

[DanGenck]

I know everybody is heated about this stuff, but lets all try to relax a little, eh?

[Lax_Stats]

The thing I don't get is this; while throwing the party was a pretty dumb idea, the actual victims here may in fact be the accused men and not the women who levied these allegations!! By the comments I have seen, everyone has taken the stand point that the party goers are the wrong doers and the dancers/escorts are the ones who have been wronged. Now, let's try and look at this from another angle. Suppose the women in question got pissed off at the party goers for whatever reason one wants to imagine. What is the best way they could going about seeking revenge, or to get them back or make them pay?? (whatever term you want to use) You accuse them of one of the most vilest crimes you can and smear the name of a prominent, top ranked, nationally recognized sports team in the process. Look at everything the alleged suspects have gone thru already! Wouldn't you agree that if they didn't in fact do what they are accused of that they sure are paying a heavy price for ever getting involved with these women in the first place?? I'm not saying the accused haven't done anything or even what they are accused of, I'm just saying that you have to look at all possible scenarios in order to remain objective here. Normally when there is a dispute between an escort and a customer, the escort sends in her bodyguard to take care of the problem. However, in this situation, there were more than 40 athletic males for that 1 bodyguard to have to deal with, so it is highly unlikely that if the escorts had a bodyguard, that he would have attempted to confront the party goers as he would have gotten his tail kicked, and but good!!! So, another form of getting the party goers back would have had to have been explored be the escorts. Let's face it, even if it is discovered that no crime took place by the party goers, the damage has been done! The 2006 lacrosse season is over for the Duke men's team, the reputation of Duke University as well as the men's lacrosse team is seriously tarnished, as are the names of all those involved. One final note, someone has in fact committed a crime here be it some of the party goers or the dancers/escorts and whoever it was, I hope they get the book thrown at them!!!!

[Brent Burns]

Just read a news account from Yahoo!, yet I did not put up the URL address here. Two things that came out of that article:

*Duke University President Brodhead sent an email to about 80,000 Duke alums and parents.

*J.J. Redick stated that the lacrosse players are "great guys."

I'll go back and get that URL address for y'all to read that. Here I am again:

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ap-dukelacrosse&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Andy Sharp]

No revelations, but it was the lead story for the first 10 minutes on tonight's 11:35pm EST Nightline on ABC, if those of you out west are interested.

[onpoint]

How is any of this helping the situation at all? Maybe our forum should take a cue from the rest of the lacrosse world and just lock down all threads concerning this topic. Let the pieces fall where they may and then you can cast judgment and aspersions on whomever you wish. Nothing of any value can possibly be said on this topic until legal ruling has been completed. Furthermore, anonymous personal attacks on an MDIA message board have as much bearing in this story as Anna Benson's marital status. Let's focus our attention on the remainder of the MDIA season. If you wish to take part in a philosophical debate about rape-rationale, take it somewhere else. Both of you need to take a cue from your own posts, grow up and pipe down.

[Sonny]

Well said Alex....

Look folks I don't want to start suspending/deleting message board accounts, but I will. Like it or not, this is the "biggest" event in lacrosse history. At this time, I think we can discuss the topic respectfully here at USLIA.com. I may change my opinion moving forward.

However, if you can't make a point without attacking another poster - Then don't make it here on USLIA.com. DISCUSS/DEBATE THE TOPIC, NOT THE POSTER! And do it in a respectful tone.

I will take this opportunity to remind everyone about Rule # 1 of the USLIA.com message board rules. You are all expected to know and abide by these rules at all times:

1. KEEP IT CIVIL; DO NOT "FLAME"; ATTACKS ON MDIA TEAMS/CONFERENCES/PLAYERS NOT ALLOWED; NO CURSE WORDS ALLOWED
Do not personalize any post. Debate vs. flaming: This is a friendly place. Debate is encouraged, but flaming is not allowed. Flaming is personally attacking someone. For example, saying "Any idiot knows that isn't true" is flaming because the person was just called an idiot, while "I passionately disagree" is not flaming even though it's rather emotionally charged. Finally, “attacks” on USL MDIA players, coaches, teams, conferences, referees, and/or administrators are not allowed under any circumstances. Finally no curse words are allowed on the message forums. Inserting characters for curse words is not an acceptable substitute.

Bottom line -- If you can’t make your point with out disparaging another member of the MDIA community, then do not make it on USLIA.com. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

http://forums.uslia.com/viewtopic.php?t=27

[Sonny]

LaxCast.com has an exclusive second interview with Samiha Khanna,
Staff writer, The News & Observer, Raleigh, NC. Samiha provides a first hand account of events, occurrences, and activities surrounding the
Duke Men’s Lacrosse team:
http://www.laxcast.com/laxcasts.php

[Brent Burns]

Changing the scenery a little bit, JHU announced a schedule change as they will play Mount St. Marys since Duke could not play Hop. It will be Hop's first meeting with the Mountaineers, that is, Mount St. Marys, not WVU.

[TheBearcatHimself]

Many of you may have already read this story, but I thought it showed the issues at play very clearly. It's on the ESPN. com front page,
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/columns/ ... d=tab2pos1

This is more than lacrosse now I think. Even on ESPN's coverage the lacrosse angle seems to be overshadowed to an extent. This seems to be something that was brewing in Durham for years, maybe generations. It is extremely unfortunate that a lacrosse team brings this to the forefront, especially the national forefront. The socio-economic factors involved here are beyond anything those of us outside of Durham can accurately comprehend.

This story may take a long time to play out, I hope Duke University can recover its image, right now Duke Lacrosse may not be salvagable image-wise. I think as more and more details come to light, the fact that it was lacrosse players who made these decisions is just happenstance, and unfortunate for those of us who love the game. Many stories say that all of Duke's athletes party together, so it may have been a roll of the dice as to who set this in motion.

I think it is safe to say there are lacrosse players, football players, basketball players, etc. making bad decisions everywhere everynight. I don't know, I just think lacrosse is taking a backseat now to some very, very disheartening issues in Durham. Makes you think...I for one will have this in my mind the next time I am out with friends, I hope we all temper our actions with wisdom.