CCLA Week #7 (3/22-3/29) - Discuss Games/Report Scores

[Andy Sharp]

We have received interest from 2 teams, one from each region, that could resolve this confusion and put us in line with the A division. I'd hope that would also mean we'd have 3 teams from each region going to conference.

I can't say which teams have expressed interest, but if you know of any yourselves, please forward my info to them or send them to www.cclax.org.

Saturday's Games at Calvin
I've been notified that grounds would like us to play 2 games on the Soccer/Track stadium field and 2 on the soccer practice field in the valley near the baseball stadium. Both fields are lined and ready for play, but those coming to play this weekend will need to be flexible regarding which field the grounds dept. would like us to use. These fields are across the campus loop from each other and if you park by the Gym/Softball field, you'll be set either way.

[Zeuslax]

Andy, I think your preconceptions may misrepresent my intentions. We never anticipate any game as "easy" or a guaranteed win. Both myself and the team prepare, play, and plan every game the same. (Whether we do it well or not?) Secondly, of course no one wants to "throw" any games. Remember for the other team to throw a game, if it counted, they would have to have some sort of incentive. What would the incentive be? To screw another team, by cutting off theirs noses to spite thier faces? I don't think anyone would throw a game any way. Dayton doesn't need anyone to throw a game for them. They are a very solid team.

Every game that is a uslmdia game counts and could impact the season. Hence the OOC games. In many ways the cross over games are more than a league requirement, they can impact the polls. Rankings along with the 2 required OOC games for a potential at large are important. Most teams are looking for the best competition possible anyway!

I'm not speaking for Jim here, but I think he was just looking for clarity. As was I. Our assistant coach just got off the phone with the league pres. and the cross-overs DO count towards the divisional standings. Also, uslmdia.org lists the games as divisional. If this is not the case then this needs to be expressed to Daryl for clarification on the site. Ensuring that there isn't any confusion by other leagues examining our games.

[gcclax33]

Our coach and player representatives have all confirmed that the crossovers were said to count at the league meeting.

Andy, were you proposing that we might send 6 teams to the conference playoffs rather than 4? Could we even do that mid-season? I know we would support that (because of the parity in our league).

[Matt_Gardiner]

Depending on schedule, a team might not outright "throw" a game, but may play differently. Right before conference playoffs in a game that does not affect your standings you may rest players that are dinged up. You may opt to play your seniors to get them some quality playing time before their careers wind down. You may play your freshman goalie to give him some experience.

A lot of different scenarios could exist that would change the outcome of a game depending on how "meaningful" a game is.

[Andy Sharp]

Our coach and player representatives have all confirmed that the crossovers were said to count at the league meeting.

Andy, were you proposing that we might send 6 teams to the conference playoffs rather than 4? Could we even do that mid-season? I know we would support that (because of the parity in our league).

That would be next year if we had at least 6 teams in each region, as the A division does. This year it is as usual 4 teams (#1 North vs #2 South; #1 South vs #2 North).

I have emails out to the board, we might have a call about it, but word from the top right now is counter to my argument as you all have confirmed.

I'll rest my argument.

I do wish I had not gone to the bathroom when the draw out of the hat took place at last fall's meeting, this has been on my mind since December as a potential issue, sorry I did not bring it up earlier. Mark these words, somebody is likely to feel robbed, I just hope it's not a team that won the head to head, but lost a tough cross-over.

We all still have to win the games that matter, it's just that that might not be all it takes.

In the end the best team will win the conference championship, period. Hopefully they will represent us well at nationals . . . everyone's budgeted for flights to Dallas, right?

[jimh3983]

I'm not speaking for Jim here, but I think he was just looking for clarity

Yes, I was just looking to get this cleared up now, rather than later. Our cross-conference game is tomorrow and them counting, as I assumed, makes things a little more high-stakes (not that I would have prepared my players any other way).

[Zeuslax]

Andy stated:

In the end the best team will win the conference championship, period. Hopefully they will represent us well at nationals . . . everyone's budgeted for flights to Dallas, right?

Andy makes a very good point here. Many have to prepare for the national tournament. It would be very embarrasing if the team that one the tournament was unable to attend the national tournament. What would happen if that was the case. Would the second place team take their spot? Or would it go to the next team in the polls? I don't think this will be the case.....and I hope it doesn't. This previous mentioned scenerios stink for sure, but it hopefully it all comes out in the wash.

[Andy Sharp]

To get back to you Anthony

Andy, I think your preconceptions may misrepresent my intentions. We never anticipate any game as "easy" or a guaranteed win. Both myself and the team prepare, play, and plan every game the same. (Whether we do it well or not?) Secondly, of course no one wants to "throw" any games. Remember for the other team to throw a game, if it counted, they would have to have some sort of incentive. What would the incentive be? To screw another team, by cutting off theirs noses to spite thier faces? I don't think anyone would throw a game any way. Dayton doesn't need anyone to throw a game for them. They are a very solid team.

I am not saying Calvin is going to do this, I am just saying that a team should not be put in a situation where the temptation is there to throw a game, in this case, Dayton COULD get the #1 seed and Calvin COULD as well, delaying their rematch till the championship. If memory serves me, Calvin's 2005 loss to IUP in the regular season missing an attackman (out with a broken jaw) and defenseman (death of his grandpa), who both made the national championship all-tournament team, in a way served us well. Trust me, my guys want to win, and we didn't lose last year on purpose, but it has been a lesson learned that revenge is a powerful motivator. In all 4 of the championships I've coached or played, my team lost during the regular season only to win the rematch in the championship.

Every game that is a uslmdia game counts and could impact the season. Hence the OOC games. In many ways the cross over games are more than a league requirement, they can impact the polls. Rankings along with the 2 required OOC games for a potential at large are important. Most teams are looking for the best competition possible anyway!

Polls schmolls, last at nationals we went in as the #9 team and took #2 to overtime. There's pages and pages of arguments, yet still plenty of room for error. There is no perfect system, at least in my mind, but there is still room for improvement.

What would happen if that was the case. Would the second place team take their spot? Or would it go to the next team in the polls?

My understanding is if our champ declined the invitation the spot would go to the next team in the national poll, but I've been wrong before.

[tjg1012]

I've hung back and let Andy make three seperate comments about easy games and bad teams in the last 3 to 4 months, and each time he includes us in the mix. Disrespect is a powerful motivator (in many ways), and I call tell you for sure that UMD can't wait to play you in a couple of weeks.

[Andy Sharp]

I've hung back and let Andy make three seperate comments about easy games and bad teams in the last 3 to 4 months, and each time he includes us in the mix. Disrespect is a powerful motivator (in many ways), and I call tell you for sure that UMD can't wait to play you in a couple of weeks.

I'll apologize right now and after your first score was posted it's obvious your team has stepped it up. Glad I could be of assistance. My hypothetical argument regarding the South region for why these cross-over games should not have counted now includes UMD and the North region. On your part, pulling off a win vs Carnegie Mellon would have put you a step ahead of Calvin. With each of our losses, we now need to win each of our 4 head-to-head games to assure a spot at conference, since GVSU and possibly Ferris have the advantage. My words of caution to the South have come home to roost.

Please trust me, it was nothing personal, just a prediction based on past results for use in the hypothetical. We can officially say that if you want in, you've got to win, no cake walks in either region.

[tjg1012]

You're not supposed to put out the fire, Andy, you're supposed to add fuel to it. I can always use a motivator. I appreciate the response. In response to the comments though, seriously, whether or not a team has stepped it up and can compete well, I think we should all be cautious of discarding a group of kids because they're not top notch. We all have down years, but more importantly, all of these kids deserve a certain level of respect for playing the game. That being said it is important to my guys, as I am sure it is to every team, that they are able to compete, and that they belong in the CCLA. I'm brand new to the CCLA myself but see great opportunity for some good competition now and in the future.

[Andy Sharp]

Thanks you for accepting my apology, I really didn't intend to malign your team or Hope, I'm pulling for your development. Much of what I have said in this topic is from a person (who loves this game so much he took his full-time cubicle job buy-out as a sign to live a lacrosse life) who hates to see an unfair bracket or a team that hasn't earned favored status get it, not as a competitor. I find myself as a poll voter getting used to making far too many assumptions and your team was a victim of my assumptions. There are so many teams with so little data for basis that for much of the season I am still basing my votes on last year's results, sorry I didn't state this earlier.

Next year, if we need to determine cross-over games, I would rather see us use some logic, rather than luck. In my opinion this is two years in a row where a random draw has assisted the argument that the most deserving teams may not make the play-offs. Last year the draw hurt Grove City and in Div A their regions were not equally weighted, but with 6 teams it was not as significant. I do believe that Owen's regions idea was a great thing, with $$$ logic to back it up, we just needed to think it all the way through before we left that fall meeting. I would like each of us to come with ideas next fall, maybe something like the GRLC's designated cross-over weekend.

Regarding team motivation, I hang around Colorado State's team a couple times a year and if you've ever read Flip's journal, you'll see that he pulls it out of anything he can find. That said, with their being #1 ranked and 3-time national champions, the hope of dethroning is motivation enough to get every opponents best game. It's a tough road, no matter how a team pulls together a successful season.

I'll will try to stop handing out motivation, or at least start charging for it, with the poor lifestyle I've chosen.

The CCLA-B definitely has an argument for being the toughest conference this year, but I am sure there is another conference that feels the same.