Game Situation

[shrekjr]

shrekjr, you think I'm wrong? Okay, convince me of that and use page numbers and rule numbers while doing so please. I'm always open to learning new things or being corrected if I have misinterpreted a rule.

No, I'm on your side, but at this point we are the minority!

[Lax_Stats]

LaxRef Wrote:
The big debate is whether B1 serves for the push, since a goal was scored.

Where?? Show me a recorded goal in the scorebook! A goal has not been officially scored until it has been recorded in the book
AND play has been restarted. Just because a ball passes completely through the plane of the goal does NOT mean that a goal has been scored and awarded. The referee giveth, and the referee hath taketh away. There is no phantom goal floating around to debate whether B1 should serve a penalty or not. The goal was disallowed, therefore no goal exists in this equation to determine or impact who serves what penalties and for how long.

Would your ruling be any different if the goal had been officially reported and recorded in the scorebook before the equipment check?

Here's the real question, and if you can answer this correctly you'll see why I don't think B1 should serve: What is the intent of the rule that tells us to wave off a technical foul flag if a goal is scored? (When the dust all settles on this—I've submitted this to a district rules interpreted for guidance—I may have the wrong ruling here, but I think my ruling is in line with the intent of this rule.)

You are missing the point. If the goal has been officially reported and recorded in the scorebook, it can still be removed from the scorebook at any time UNTIL play has resumed. If it is removed, it doesnt exist! It is as if it was never scored in the first place. Once the whistle has blown to resume play, the goal is now part of the book for all eternity and cannot be removed from the book for any reason. If the whistle has not yet sounded and play resumed, then the officials still have an opportunity to get the call right and disallow the goal. Read page 86 under mistakes by officials. Not that the officials have made a mistake here, because they haven't, but this might help clear this up a bit.

To wipe out B1's penalty is to say a goal was scored by A1. Please show me this goal in the book at the end of the game and I'm sure A1 will be looking for the credit of this goal in his stats.

To assess B1 with a penalty is to say no goal was scored.

You cant take a little bit of one rule and a little bit of another rule and combine them for a rule that doesn't exist.

c'mon guys, it's so simple. It's all ball bearings nowadays!

[laxfan25]

As a point of reference, let's quote 7.2.d:
Rule 7.2.d in the NCAA book:
d. For the purpose of determining when a player or players may be released from a penalty, for all time-serving penalties called on players of opposing teams from the time the flag is dropped or the whistle sounds stopping play (whichever occurs first), until the sounding of the whistle resuming play, the lesser amount of penalty time shall be treated as non-releasable.

When I first read Lax_Stats post, I was ready to agree. Buth then someone brought up this situation;
A1 has the ball and is held by B1, flag down. Then A1 scores, and A1 slashes B1 during the dead ball. If you're proposing that we apply 7-2-d, then B1 serves 30 seconds even though A1 scored. I hope we can all agree that that is not what is intended!

7-2-d only applies to penalties that will be served; it doesn't make penalties that were not going to be served into time-serving penalties.

He seemed to have a valid point also, and now I'm really confused. (I liked it better when I was going to wave off the technical and just penalize the stick call).

[LaxRef]

Here's the real question, and if you can answer this correctly you'll see why I don't think B1 should serve: What is the intent of the rule that tells us to wave off a technical foul flag if a goal is scored? (When the dust all settles on this—I've submitted this to a district rules interpreted for guidance—I may have the wrong ruling here, but I think my ruling is in line with the intent of this rule.)

If you're going where I think you're going, I still disagree. If you believe the INTENT is to protect Team A from safety issues and that is why you would enforce a personal foul but not a technical foul, then I could also say Team A was safely able to get the shot off and whether they score or not was not affected by the foul.

The idea is that if there is a technical foul and the team scores anyway, then team A was not disadvantaged by the foul. OTOH, for a personal, A1 still has a big old bruise on his arm from a slash whether or not a goal is scored, so, no, Team A was not able to "safely" get the shot off—the damage has been done.

In any case, my point is that the push by B1 did not disadvantage team A, since they scored. What disadvantaged team A was their own cheating.

Again, the "official" ruling here may not end up agreeing with me, but I think it's the right call based on the spirit of the rule.

[Lax_Stats]

But you cant wave off the technical because no goal was scored!

[Lax_Stats]

Sorry shrekjr, there are 2 different situations being talked about here so there was a little confusion on my part as to which one you were talking about.

[Lax_Stats]

Thank God! I have a dental appt and have to leave. I will let you gentlemen debate these issues amongst yourselves.. but only for a little while! I shall return shortly to save the world from all bad guys as well as bad calls! up, up, and awaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.