Substitution Violation...I think.

[Laxbacker]

Team A player gets a personal foul and one minute in DaBox.

Team B starts their EMO and upon entering team A's defensive zone they realize that Team A has all six defenders back.

It is further discovered that they (Team A) only have 2 attacks up front. So, I guess, they are a "man down" but . . .

My questions:

1. Is it not a substitution violation (or 2) for Team A to have 6 defending.

2. If so, what is the best way (other than the verbal version of an exploding cranium) for Team B's coach to address the violation with the Ref?

[Tim Gray]

1. That would be offsides and another penalty

2. Yell "they're offsides"

[Laxbacker]

I'm still shakin my head, because when this happened and the Team B coach yelled, "they're offsides!"; the honorable Ref looked around and told him (Coach of Team B), "The whistle had not yet been blown."

We're all human and errors can happen. I thought I was going nuts. I thought the explanation was rather curious too.

BTW, the situation was continued for the remainder of the contest so it made me question my meager knowledge of the rules.

So, not sub. violation but offsides.

Thanks again.

[Tim Gray]

I'm still shakin my head, because when this happened and the Team B coach yelled, "they're offsides!"; the honorable Ref looked around and told him (Coach of Team B), "The whistle had not yet been blown."

We're all human and errors can happen. I thought I was going nuts. I thought the explanation was rather curious too.

BTW, the situation was continued for the remainder of the contest so it made me question my meager knowledge of the rules.

So, not sub. violation but offsides.

Thanks again.

Wait, so did they penalized team not remove a defender to their offensive side?? The refs allowed them to play 6v6?? That makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

[Lax_Stats]

Had the whistle blown to restart play?

[LaxRef]

I'm still shakin my head, because when this happened and the Team B coach yelled, "they're offsides!"; the honorable Ref looked around and told him (Coach of Team B), "The whistle had not yet been blown."

If they're offsides during a dead ball, then it's not offsides, but the officials shouldn't start play while they are offsides. They should wait until their beeper sounds and assess an additional delay of game IP penalty, then be very clear about enforcement (since often they'll take one guy off the field and still be offsides!).

[laxfan25]

Based on the first post, it would appear that play had started when they realized they were offsides. If that was the case there would be a flag down, and Team A would be smart to keep the guy down there once they realize they are going to be penalized, and work to get the play-on killed. At that point Team A would be two men down.
If play hadn't started - what LaxRef said would apply.
(Coaching note: Once you realize you have gone offsides and the ref has thrown his flag - you might as well go join the play rather than going back onsides. Once you're offsides, you're offsides. The same player going over, coming back, and going over again has committed just one technical foul. However, if another guy goes over, then you have two penalties.)

[Laxbacker]

In reply to Tim Gray's questions:

1. No

2. Yes

I completely agree with your stated hypothetical conclusion.

I dare not add anything to that and risk making disparaging comments about an official.

Like I said. We all make errors. This one, however, continued throughout the remainder of the game.

Let's just say personal fouls for Team A lost their sting. I thought I was going to suffer an aneurism trying not to blast the ref from the gallery.

P.S. I promise this happened in the last two weeks. I couldn't make this up.

[LaxRef]

In reply to your questions:

1. No

2. Yes

I completely agree with your stated hypothetical conclusion.

I dare not add anything to that and risk making disparaging comments about an official.

Like I said. We all make errors. This one, however, continued throughout the remainder of the game.

Let's just say personal fouls for Team A lost their sting. I thought I was going to suffer an aneurism trying not to blast the ref from the gallery.

P.S. I promise this happened in the last two weeks. I couldn't make this up.

Was this a high school game played under NFHS rules? If so, you can challenge the rule interpretation via Rule 7-13.

[laxfan25]

Wait - so you're saying that the officials let a penalized team play with two attackmen and a full complement on defense? Jeesh! If that is true (and I don't doubt your word - it just seems incredulous) this should be brought up immediately to your district assignor or interpreter - definite need for remedial education.

[Laxbacker]

Actually, I went to a game there tonight and Team A tried it again. This time a different crew timed the situation down with out whistling the ball into play. When team A realized it they tried to call time out but got hit with an offsides Technical foul 30 second penalty. There were no more creative man down situations, hence.

The original Team B coach probably did lodge a complaint with the assigner, btw. He was not amused.

Thanks for the reply.

[Lax_Stats]

LaxRef has the call right. The 20 second timer should be on and it would be at the officials discretion as to whether or not he was going to tell the head coach of the penalized team "Hey coach you need to have 3 guys in your offensive half of the field" I don't know if this would be an approved mechanic or not as by doing this you possibly disadvantage the man up team by potentially taking away a potential additional man up opportunity from them.

Remember, you don't want to restart play in a situation like this as the team is entitled to a full 20 seconds after the penalty is assessed to make substitutions and get their personal appropriately placed on the field. If you were to re-start play 15 seconds into the 20 second timer, you have now disadvantaged the man down team by disallowing them the full 20 seconds they were entitled to

[Lax_Stats]

Actually, I went to a game there tonight and Team A tried it again. This time a different crew timed the situation down with out whistling the ball into play. When team A realized it they tried to call time out but got hit with an offsides Technical foul 30 second penalty. There were no more creative man down situations, hence.

The original Team B coach probably did lodge a complaint with the assigner, btw. He was not amused.

Thanks for the reply.

The ref made the wrong call be calling an offsides penalty. A team cannot be offsides during a dead ball. The correct call would have be a technical foul for delay of game.

[Laxbacker]

Good point Lax_Stats.

I can't say for sure, but I believe the Team A coach realized what was happening and tried to call a TO, but the lead ref yelled "No time out" and the trailing ref (at the midfield 'X' whistled and waved off the faceoff, threw the flag and called the offsides technical on Team A.

The 20 secs. had probably elapsed and I was mistaken about it.

I was very agitated to see the same situation occurring and equally as relieved that the crew nailed it.

In other words, they probably called it correctly but I described it incorrectly.

Anyway, it was a happy ending for team B's everywhere.

Thanks again, guys, for the comments.

[LaxRef]

I can't say for sure, but I believe the Team A coach realized what was happening and tried to call a TO, but the lead ref yelled "No time out" and the trailing ref (at the midfield 'X' whistled and waved off the faceoff, threw the flag and called the offsides technical on Team A.

The 20 secs. had probably elapsed and I was mistaken about it.

I was very agitated to see the same situation occurring and equally as relieved that the crew nailed it.

In other words, they probably called it correctly but I described it incorrectly.

If a faceoff was pending, there should be no flag for a technical foul like delay of game; it should just be possession awarded to the other team.