Third MDIA Div. A Top 25 Poll is out (3/22/06)!

[steveperry]

If I was a pollster, I don't think I could move Cal poly UP a spot for losing two games since the last poll.

Poly beat BYU after the last poll came out. I even heard a pollster mention last time that they would have had them higher had the result come in prior to the voting. So since the last poll they beat BYU and lost 2 OT games to teams ranked in their neighborhood.

Not true. They beat BYU in february. The last poll was March 8th. This is exactly what I am talking about. I bet some voters made your same mistake. Since the last poll, they beat Minnesota and Washington, both unranked, and lost to two teams that were ranked lower then they were.

[Lefty]

Your right,

They moved up 1 spot. I guess because G Tech and Arizona moved down, and Duluth with their 2 OT victories moved ahead of them.

Were should they be then?? 13 seems pretty accuarate to me. Looking at the teams below them who is better??? Utah beat them by 1 but had some tough loses early. Seems to me the poll is as accurate as it can be.

I don't think the voter can look at just recent results. You need to take the season as a whole and not discount early defeats and/or vicotires

[WaterBoy]

Where that is true, it is a real cop out for doing shotty work.

I'm not a poll voter, and I was instantly offended by that comment. Last I checked, none of the poll voters are compensated for their voting. I know it takes a great deal of time- it simply has to in order to get a solid grip on what's going on.

I don't think any of them are obligated to meet your standards of what is "passable work." I never knew how hard it was to sit down and put together a poll until I tried it this year. It's very easy to look at one and see where you disagree with it, and nothing compared to actually trying to compose an actual poll. Redesigning one isn't the same. I would recommend trying out making your own and posting before the next poll. Post it publicly. See if anyone disagrees.

I apologize if it sounds like I'm snapping a little bit here, but I think there is just a lack of respect shown for people who are releasing a product of volunteer work, and then having it torn apart in a crass manner.

Word of the day is apparently puerile.

[steveperry]

I don't think the voter can look at just recent results. You need to take the season as a whole and discount early defeats and/or vicotires

If that was the case, it would only make sense to do one poll at the end of the season, since it would be based on everthing. It seems that voters take past wins/loses into consideration only for some teams, and not for others.
We forgive teams like Poly for losing two games in a row, hell we give them a higher ranking, and we forget about Utah losing to two lesser ranked teams earlier this year, Chico State and Chapman. Yet, we don't do that for every team when voting.

The whole point of having multiple polls is to show how teams are performing at the time of the poll, not how they did before the last poll. If a team has a tough loss before one poll, that poll will reflect it. This is how NCAA lacrosse, football, basketball, hell, most sports do it. Why should the USLIA be any different?

[steveperry]

Where that is true, it is a real cop out for doing shotty work.

Last I checked, none of the poll voters are compensated for their voting. I know it takes a great deal of time- it simply has to in order to get a solid grip on what's going on.
.

Very true, but they volunteered for the position. Everyone that is a voter had to plead their case to become a voter. It is a great responsibility that they accepted. They knew it is a lot of work, because it is. All we have in the USLIA is this poll. There is no AP or ESPN poll. This is it. It IS a huge responsibility that should not be taken lightly. When you put teams like Virginia Tech as your number 12 pick, and yes I keep bringing that up because it is very hard to understand, then they should have to defend their vote.

[UofMLaxGoalie11]

Where that is true, it is a real cop out for doing shotty work.

I'm not a poll voter, and I was instantly offended by that comment. Last I checked, none of the poll voters are compensated for their voting. I know it takes a great deal of time- it simply has to in order to get a solid grip on what's going on.

I don't think any of them are obligated to meet your standards of what is "passable work." I never knew how hard it was to sit down and put together a poll until I tried it this year. It's very easy to look at one and see where you disagree with it, and nothing compared to actually trying to compose an actual poll. Redesigning one isn't the same. I would recommend trying out making your own and posting before the next poll. Post it publicly. See if anyone disagrees.

I apologize if it sounds like I'm snapping a little bit here, but I think there is just a lack of respect shown for people who are releasing a product of volunteer work, and then having it torn apart in a crass manner.

Word of the day is apparently puerile.

I completely agree. Part of the reason I am debating this is not because of your points of argument (some of them are actually quite credible and have persuaded me), but largely on your style of argument. Its one thing to say "I believe team X is ranked too high, and here are my reasons", but a whole different thing to say something along the lines of "how could they put team X this high? Have they not seen any scores since the last poll?!"

[steveperry]

point well taken, Dan. It is easy to get fired up about this stuff sometimes.

[Timbalaned]

The whole point of having multiple polls is to show how teams are performing at the time of the poll, not how they did before the last poll. If a team has a tough loss before one poll, that poll will reflect it. This is how NCAA lacrosse, football, basketball, hell, most sports do it. Why should the USLIA be any different?

I have a problem with that cause then you would have to put CSU, Oregon, and CU at 1,2,3 because obviously they are playing the best cause they havent lost to any MDIA teams. Then would obviously follow with Boston University who is 1-0, but they havent lost, so they are playing well. You have to take other games and polls into account

[steveperry]

[quote="TheJoker

I have a problem with that cause then you would have to put CSU, Oregon, and CU at 1,2,3 because obviously they are playing the best cause they havent lost to any MDIA teams. Then would obviously follow with Boston University who is 1-0, but they havent lost, so they are playing well. You have to take other games and polls into account

I don't know if you really understand the argument here. Have CSU and Oregon beat ranked teams since the last poll? Yes. Has Boston University? No. Just winning does not mean you move into the top 25. If you play 2 ranked teams and lose, and then beat two unranked teams, that does not make you a top 25 team. When you lose to teams ranked below you, you probably should not move up in the next poll. Say you then go out and beat to teams ranked above, the next poll should reward you for that. In all college sports, you move up in the polls by BEATING ranked teams. Why would the USLIA be any different?

[CATLAX MAN]

Sometimes you also move up by default when a team that was higher than you moves down due to some bad losses.

[Jolly Roger]

When you lose to teams ranked below you, you probably should not move up in the next poll

Some teams might move up as a result of teams above them falling even further in a pollster's mind.

[cjwilhelmi]

I don't know if you really understand the argument here. Have CSU and Oregon beat ranked teams since the last poll? Yes. Has Boston University? No. Just winning does not mean you move into the top 25. If you play 2 ranked teams and lose, and then beat two unranked teams, that does not make you a top 25 team.

Ok so what you are saying is that Team A loses to CSU and Sonoma by a combined 5 points and beats Team X and Y by a combined 30 points that Team A who is previously ranked 10-15 (or 3-25 for that matter) should drop out of the polls completely. Yeah that makes sense

As a side note I do agree with some of the nature and ideas of your arguments.

I can tell you that I am a Div B poll voter. I spend a minimum of 8 hours a week just looking and comparing scores and another several hours making my poll.

[yourmom]

I'm still waiting to see Joker's version of the top 25

[steveperry]

Ok so what you are saying is that Team A loses to CSU and Sonoma by a combined 5 points and beats Team X and Y by a combined 30 points that Team A who is previously ranked 10-15 (or 3-25 for that matter) should drop out of the polls completely. Yeah that makes sense

As a side note I do agree with some of the nature and ideas of your arguments.

I can tell you that I am a Div B poll voter. I spend a minimum of 8 hours a week just looking and comparing scores and another several hours making my poll.

It sounds like you are a very conscious voter, which is probably why you took the job. You take it seriously and that is a great service to all of the Div. B teams. If a team is ranked that high, 10 or 15, and they lose to 2 teams ranked below them, then maybe they should move to the 19-25 range. They can bounce back by beating ranked teams later on. If they are losing close games to two top 5 teams, then they should move back as well, but maybe not out of the top 25. Unless, that team that just lost has not beat a ranked team yet this season. Why should they be in the top 20 or even the top 25?

[horn17]

How many times have we rehashed this issue over the past couple of years??? Really, if I could give Sonny a dollar for everytime we discussed this post, he would have retired in 2001.........


Seriously...what we have to remember is that teams can have good games and bad games...if we all went undefeated, what fun would this be?? Half the reason for the poll (in my eyes) is to help teams push one themselves to get to be in the top 16 for the final poll....but we shouldn't be punishing teams for having a slightly weaker conference this year than in the past for example...VT (gotta love that hokie rugby team!!!) might be having a great conference year, and be considerable stronger than the teams in there conference, and we should punish them for this???....keep in mind, most of these schedules are composed at least a year in advance, and you cant always play CSU, NOMA, MICH, BYU, etc, etc, etc...I think the pollsters try to get a grasp on the ENTIRE league, not just the WCLL (no offense intended) and RMLL and try to make everyone happy....now the WCLL might be the strongest conference this year, but unfortunately not everyone can go to the dance....sometimes Seton Hall gets in, and Cincinnati doesn't...just the nature of the beast....

Personally, I like the poll, it will play out as it needs too, it always does....