Hypothetical Championship Tourney Question

[onpoint]

Just sitting around the Rock-it Pocket empire thinking about lacrosse. What do you guys think about the following situation:

Instead of the top 16 minus AQs, what if we brought in the next two ranked teams in the poll that didn't make it as well to make it the top 18 teams minus AQs.

Then, #15 plays #18 and #16 plays #17 for the bottom two spots in the tourney on Monday. This could give us two advantages:

1. Two more teams able to travel to the national tournament, increasing games available for the consolation rounds (and, negatively, field space and refs).

2. The probability of a more challenging first round game for the #1 and 2 seeds, who traditionally have not had a whole lot to worry about on the first day (playing devil's advocate to myself, maybe the next two teams down won't be a whole lot better and by tiring them out, it could actually make it worse . . .)

Just sitting around thinking, so I'm sure there are plenty of negatives to this idea, but wanted to get some feedback. I would guess that those two play-in games would probably be some of the most competitive.

[grinderpete]

The problem is adding that extra day to the tournament. I think if they do go with this type of idea, they should probably add 4 teams to go to 20. That would be just as easy as doing 18 and gets more teams a chance to play.

P.S. Is Rock-It-Pocket an empire?

[Ken Lovic]

seems tough enough from top coaches that playing that many games in a 3-4 day span is tough enough, now make it harder on the 15-18 seeds by having them play even earlier and an extra game (the day beofre they play the 1n2 seed?) plus added expense to getting there even earlier, coaches having to take extra day off work, staff having to get there earlier etc.. Possibly nice idea but unrealistic IMO considering where we are staff wise as is. Also, means more games to fit in an already busy schedule with 2 teams sitting out the first day or do they go home if they lose the first day?

just my thought

[onpoint]

Both good points. And yes, if you got to sit in my chair and look out over the mountain at work every day, you would consider it an empire!

[CATLAX MAN]

What about not adding an extra day and give the top 2 teams a first round bye instead? Let the extra teams fill out the bracket for the 1st day. Same number of games, same number of days, and an advantage for the top 2 seeds who should get an advantage for earning those top seeds. Also gives the last 4 teams a shot at a competitive game on the first day, rather than getting obliterated on Day 1.

[Daniel Morris]

Anyone considering adding more teams to the Div. A tournament is forgeting our current manpower situation and the fact that we have another whole division of teams playing at the same time.

I just completed the tournament schedule for Div A & B for this year's event. Already adding an extra day for Division B's growing numbers (they are at 12 teams this year), we are still running four fields at a time, starting games at 10am and finishing up around 7pm. Between referees, stat people, ground crews, people to run the games themselves, and media, how on Earth are we going to conduct more games? We would need to start the tournament on Monday, which is now a full week for most traveling teams, and our volunteer budget would explode. Unless we move to a regional format for preliminaries, we cannot add more teams to this tournament, unless we are pushing division B to 16 teams.

And even if we didn't add more games, as CATLAX's plan goes, our consolation game brackets becomes a skewed nightmare. And before I hear about how consolation games don't matter, take into account that most teams attend this tournament knowing they aren't getting out of the first round, but are there to play three games and increase their profile and lengthen their season.

[CATLAX MAN]

And even if we didn't add more games, as CATLAX's plan goes, our consolation game brackets becomes a skewed nightmare. And before I hear about how consolation games don't matter, take into account that most teams attend this tournament knowing they aren't getting out of the first round, but are there to play three games and increase their profile and lengthen their season.

I thought there were not any consolation game brackets any more. I thought they were assigned games by mutual consent usually trying to match up teams that don't get the chance to play each other or to provide a good game matchup. Under the scenario I suggested, you end up with one more consolation game.

[Daniel Morris]

The first round of consolations games is currently bracketed from the previous day, the following round is mutual consent. In addition, we don't want any consolation round games to compete against Div A semifinals, and worked hard to lessen the amount that compete against Div. B (originally I worked to have no competition for Div B semis as well, which was impossible, as there just aren't enough hours in the day). So Friday is very tightly structured, especially considering we couldn't get teams to play 8am games.

[jessexy]

if you invite the next 2 ranked teams, does it solve anything? i dont think so. because then the NEXT two teams will ask (read: whine) why they werent able to come to the National tournament.

With the NCAA BBall, the 66th team still talks about why they werent invited and the 33rd team talks about why they didnt get the at-large bid from the committee. the sad thing is that it could be my Aggies this year after a great basketball season.

[CATLAX MAN]

The only reason for doing this would not be so much for adding the 2 extra teams at the bottom of the bracketing, but more for giving the top 2 teams an advantage of playing one less game. The regular season becomes a little more meaningful if there was really something at stake at the top of the bracket. Just a thought.

[John Paul]

i think the tournament is brutal enough as it is. I can't imagine adding another day, for teams or staff.

[shocker P]

With 12 teams competing for D-B, how will the bracket be set up? Could there really be a first round bye for the top 4 teams? I don’t see this as being a good thing.

[WaterBoy]

I was thinking about this. And I think it's good question. I don't know how they would be running it, but here's an idea-

Why not have the byes on the second day? Granted you'll have more games to play, but you'll maximize the lacrosse going on. Six games the first day, top 2 get byes, then you get three consolation games on day two (plus 2 real games). Also the top 2 teams get an added day of rest before the rest of the tournament.

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

It's a nice thought. . .but I think you're best off just going with a traditional 12-team bracket. Reward the top-4 teams with a bye, and then play 5 v. 12, 6 v. 11, 7 v. 10 and 8 v. 9. . .

4 seed gets 5 v. 12 winner, 3 gets 6/11, 2 gets 7/10, 1 gets 8/9. . .

And then you have your final four.

6 games the first day is an interesting concept, but I think the traditional format is the best way to go.

[Kyle Berggren]

4 seed gets 5 v. 12 winner, 3 gets 6/11, 2 gets 7/10, 1 gets 8/9. . .

Wouldn't you want top team playing the lowest seed? not necessarily the winner of 5v12 etc? I've always been torn on which way is better, and I'm still not sure.