31 Saves??????

[onpoint]

http://www.uslmdia.org/game.cfm?conferenceid=9&divisionid=1&gameid=2102

On the stats page, Missouri has credited themselves with only 34 shots on goal. They scored nine, yet Texas Tech lists their goalie with 31 saves. Not only is this mathematically impossible, but don't we think this is a being a little loose with the language of what a save is? I normally wouldn't post about this, but this one is a little out there. I've personally never seen a goalie record 30 saves (though I did MAKE 27 in Vail once, with a shot clock and against a team of Div. I All-Americans) and I've been around lacrosse for a long, long time. Is Kurzweil some absolute freak of nature that he saves balls that aren't even shot? I've got to see this in action because even Chuck Norris would blush at this type of exaggeration.

p.s. - I posted before I read the "addendum" at the bottom of Missouri's game report.

[sohotrightnow]

Wow, not cocky at all are we? Rob Warner has recorded over 30 saves a couple times.

[KnoxVegas]

Appendix II, Sec. 1a of the 2006 NCAA Lacrosse Rule Book states:

"Goalkeeper saves- A save is recorded any time a ball is stopped or deflected by the goalkeeper's body or crosse in such a manner that had the ball not been stopped or deflected, it would have entered the goal."

Appendix II, Sec. 1e of the 2006 NCAA Lacrosse Rule Book states:

"Shot- A ball propelled toward the goal by an offensive player, wither by being thrown from a crosse, kicked or otherwise physically directed. A shot can be awarded only when possession of the ball can be reasonably said to have occurred, by ricochet or when a controlled effort can be constructed (similar to a controlled tip in basketball). A that enters the goal as a result of being propelled by he offensive team must be credited as a shot. A ball that ricochets off another player and scores will be awarded as a shot by the player deemed to have scored the goal. In the case of an own goal, no shot is awarded."


As for Warner's game totals, I had the pleasure of scoring several off his games when nationals were in St. Louis. Each of those game's save totals were legit.

[Kojima]

I've personally never seen a goalie record 30 saves (though I did MAKE 27 in Vail once, with a shot clock and...

our junior years, i believe matt johnson of sfu posted 31 saves at nationals.

i heard a couple stat guys agree. unfortunately, i think the official record ended up being 27. it was in the second round of nationals, in the winners bracket. that year (03) we only had 16 guys, yet we still played mostly with our starters. as the no.14 seed (?) we up-set the colorado buffs 16-14 but had nothing in the tank left for sonoma sate. they jumped out to a good lead and although we had closed the margin to 7-4 heading into the fourth, they routed us something like 12-4. still matt played unreal and had numerous stuffs on the crease. it was just a tough game for us. ssu had the numbers, a great game plan and the benefit of playing on that long st.louis grass (that stuff was terrible to run on and the ball would never go out of bounds.) it was definitely a long game for us sfu middies.

[benji]

onpoint,

So you're telling me its unreasonable to see how Mizzou could have recorded 34 shots on goal and Tech could have recorded a different number? Being that I was actually at the game, I could tell you with good confidence that Kurzweil had 31 saves... and yes, just as you said, he is a freak of nature.

Maybe Mizzou should pay more attention to their stats and not put so much faith in stick checks saving the game for them, which unfortunately for them didn't work.

[Bluevelvet]

onpoint,So you're telling me its unreasonable to see how Mizzou could have recorded 34 shots on goal and Tech could have recorded a different number? Being that I was actually at the game, I could tell you with good confidence that Kurzweil had 31 saves... and yes, just as you said, he is a freak of nature.

Riiiight.

[sohotrightnow]

You would think that your game report would sing your goalie's praises, yet there is no mention of his "freak of nature" abilities.

[benji]

We haven't published our game report yet. But whatever, we got the win. Kurzweil had a great game, you guys argue about statistics all you want.

[sohotrightnow]

So what the hell is this?

Mizzou jumped out to an early lead making it 4-1 after 1. Tech rebounded and tied it up at half, 5-5. Tech built an 11-7 lead before a stick was checked on a player twice. The second stick check (11 mins. later) found the stick to have magically shrunken, thus omitting the goal. Tech was man down for the final 3 mins. of the game which gave Mizzou a chance to come back to 10-9 before time ran out. Tech showed great poise in the second fighting an uphill battle.

[benji]

Ah good call, I must have been looking at the Tech/CU game.

EDIT:

... As long as (for whatever reason) we all believe Mizzou's information as the undoubted truth, it should be then shown that Mizzou's game before the Mizzou/TTU game was with thier "B" team. I wonder why that would show up in the game report though....

Missouri led 4-1 after one quarter. Tied at half. Missouri went down 10-6 and scored 3 goals in the last 4 minutes to nearly tie the game. Both goalies played fantastic, carrying their teams. This was the second of two back to back games for Mizzou at noon and 2 PM. (addendum) Interesting that Tech reported 31 saves when we shot 34 times and scored on 9 of those shots........

[UofMLaxGoalie11]

Ya know, having done stats for an entire year, its very possible that they might have somehow missed some shots or something. If they get caught up in the game or have several things to mark just before its possible they forgot to mark down more shots.

[KnoxVegas]

That is why you need to use my card system. No runs, no drips, no errors!

[lilaxstats]

Having that many saves in a game, is not unheard of, here is the link to laxpower NYS records for saves in a game.

http://www.laxpower.com/nyrecords/nyrec ... 5&SortS2=1

[onpoint]

Okay, so even if Missouri's stat crew misses, say, 10 of the shots, which is a high number, that brings their total up to 44 shots. They scored nine goals, meaning only two or three shots are off goal. The point is not that 31 saves is impossible, it's that it's highly unlikely that Missouri's stat keepers were off by over (at least) 15 shots for this to be even close to realistic. How many shots did Missouri leave off goal? This sounds like a padded number, that's all. The offense is not with the goalie, but with whoever kept track or input the stats.

[UofMLaxGoalie11]

i think there also might be people out there who count any shot that doesnt go in a save. even if it was 5 feet off the post. and i guess that 6 shots might be a little high to forget to count.