Too many men question

[slider]

I had a question about too many men on the field off of a restart. After a timeout, team A has 7 players on the field while team B has possession. The refs blow the ball in play and then notice the extra player. They blow the play dead and allow team A to get their extra player off the field with the explanation that since it they had too many men off of a restart, it was referee error. Is this the correct procedure? It seems that team A should at least be called for delay because the ball was brought back into play. Can anyone clarify? Thanks.

[slider]

Actually, just after posting, I got an explanation from a division 1 official who said that, by rule, since the ball had been put in play, there should have been a time serving penalty on the team with too many men. It was referee error to put the ball in play, but because it had been put in play, the rule states that there should be a penalty. There is no rule allowing the refs to moments later realize the error and correct it.

[LaxRef]

I had a question about too many men on the field off of a restart. After a timeout, team A has 7 players on the field while team B has possession. The refs blow the ball in play and then notice the extra player. They blow the play dead and allow team A to get their extra player off the field with the explanation that since it they had too many men off of a restart, it was referee error. Is this the correct procedure? It seems that team A should at least be called for delay because the ball was brought back into play. Can anyone clarify? Thanks.

It's actually not technically the officials' responsibility to count the players after a timeout. See:

The officials shall ensure that each team has 10 players, including those in the penalty area, at the beginning of each period of the game and before each restart after a goal.

[Sonny]

Actually, just after posting, I got an explanation from a division 1 official who said that, by rule, since the ball had been put in play, there should have been a time serving penalty on the team with too many men. It was referee error to put the ball in play, but because it had been put in play, the rule states that there should be a penalty. There is no rule allowing the refs to moments later realize the error and correct it.

If the refs make a mistake (restarting too quickly; i.e. not allowing teams full 20 seconds), then they should correct their error.

[LaxRef]

If the refs make a mistake (restarting too quickly; i.e. not allowing teams full 20 seconds), then they should correct their error.

Agreed. See:

When a timekeeper, scorer or official makes a mistake that would result in a team or player being penalized and another official becomes aware that a mistake is being made, that official shall promptly correct the mistake. If goals are scored during the mistake made by the timer, scorer or an official and it is brought to the attention of the referee before the next live ball, the referee must allow or disallow the goal, depending on the circumstances.

But in this case, if the team puts too many men on the field after a timeout, it's not an officials' error; they are only required to count after a goal and before each period. Of course, it's a good idea to count anyway, but it's not technically a mistake if they don't.

[slider]

This is actually a bigger mistake than I originally thought. If the refs are not responsible to count after a timeout, then there is no question that there should have been a time serving penalty once the ball had been put in play. This occurred when the team with the ball was up 1 goal with under a minute left. A man advantage would have made it much easier to run out the remaining time on the clock. The refs also put more time back on the clock once the error was realized.

[LaxRef]

The refs also put more time back on the clock once the error was realized.

No, no, no! There's no provision for putting time back on the clock in lacrosse. These must have been football officials!

[Sonny]

Lets not get into game specifics Slider. Use Team A, Team B, etc.

Note the guidelines for asking questions in this forum:
http://forums.uslia.com/viewtopic.php?t=2558

There is a lot of preventive officiating going on at any given time. Knowing allowing a restart to take place while a team didn't have enough guys on the field is like lighting the fuse to a bomb.

[slider]

My bad. I was just trying to put into context the impact of the call.

[Maple Leaf]

in a similar situation, if team a notices that they have too many players on the field, and team b's head coach is yelling offsides.... prior to the referee's ruling, team a asks for, and is granted a time out. After awarding the time out, the officials then proceed to count, and then throw a flag for too many players.

1. was the ruling correct to throw the flag after the time out had been awarded?

2. after throwing the flag, do the officials have the prerogative to ask team a if they still want to use their time out, and wipe it out if they do not?

[LaxRef]

in a similar situation, if team a notices that they have too many players on the field, and team b's head coach is yelling offsides.... prior to the referee's ruling, team a asks for, and is granted a time out. After awarding the time out, the officials then proceed to count, and then throw a flag for too many players.

1. was the ruling correct to throw the flag after the time out had been awarded?

2. after throwing the flag, do the officials have the prerogative to ask team a if they still want to use their time out, and wipe it out if they do not?

IMO, if you recognize that a live-ball sub infraction or offsides has taken place, even if you notice it during the ensuing dead ball, it should be penalized. Of course, it had better be determined quickly, since people will surely be running everywhere and making it harder to determine what foul, if any, occurred.

If I stopped a live-ball play for the timeout, I would not offer the coach the opportunity to take it back. However, if it was a dead-ball timeout I might.

[Sonny]

2. after throwing the flag, do the officials have the prerogative to ask team a if they still want to use their time out, and wipe it out if they do not?

I would lean toward that (2nd) option. I wouldn't feel comfortable allow a team to knowingly benefit with a timeout if they had too many men or were offside.