CSU v. UCSB

[CSUalum32]

I like CSU because one of my best friends goes there.

just wondering who? i think both teams are very good. UCSB does have an older more experienced team with a lot talent. CSU also has talent, this year i think CSU has had more depth than they have had in the past which is huge.

[laxdad03]

It really doesn't have anything to do with mystique or intimidation.

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said ... "except for" the above. Yes, there are other very important factors (as we both mentioned) but believe me, the mystique has definitely been there and played a large part (BYU's fault for letting it) with respect to CSU over the recent years, and was clearly evident at times (and a major determining factor) in that last semifinal game (on both sides of the ball). I point that out for the future benefit and encouragement of BYU and others; CSU builds GREAT teams over the years, but they are not unstoppable, UCSB certainly has showed that -- and UCSB wasn't perfect or unstoppable either, Michigan showed that.

That's what makes it fun. If all games were won and lost strictly in accordance with the polls or whatever, why bother? I don't really know about Sonoma this year but they've been tough, Arizona's defense has always been their strong suit, Michigan is solid but..., FSU has some firepower and is on the rise but..., and the list goes on. In any case, I'm stilll looking forward to some good action the next few years. Best wishes to all.

[DG]

It really doesn't have anything to do with mystique or intimidation.

Catlax, I have to agree with laxdad here. CSU is in BYU's head. CSU has OWNED the Cougars for the past few years. Yes, there have been close games, but CSU has always found a way to pull it out. Until BYU beats CSU in a game of significance (RMLC Championships or Natl Championship Tournament) that cloud will continue to hang over the Cougars' collective heads.

All that said, CSU and UCSB were consistently the two best teams last year. BYU, AZ, CU and the rest had good potential, but didn't realize it to the extent that the Rams and Gauchos did.

DG

[onpoint]

When I was a freshman, it was the other way around. We had never beaten them in any type of game (fall or otherwise) until we finally got them in the 2000 RMLC championships at home in one of the greatest games on CSU's campus ever. They beat us for the NC that year, but after that, CSU finally started winning the series.

[Ravaging Beast]

When was the last time UCSB lost to BYU?

[the lax]

just wondering who? i think both teams are very good. UCSB does have an older more experienced team with a lot talent. CSU also has talent, this year i think CSU has had more depth than they have had in the past which is huge.[/quote]

I don't think CSU's defense is as prepared for an injury as the offense is.

[CATLAX MAN]

I don't think CSU's defense is as prepared for an injury as the offense is.

CSU always has plenty of depth. It should not be a concern.

[CATLAX MAN]

When was the last time UCSB lost to BYU?

That would be in 2001. They lost in the regular season and also in the 3rd place game in the tournament.

[CATLAX MAN]

It really doesn't have anything to do with mystique or intimidation.

Catlax, I have to agree with laxdad here. CSU is in BYU's head. CSU has OWNED the Cougars for the past few years.

I'm sorry, but I just can't buy that. It sounds to me more like a juicy rationalization on the BYU supporters part. They owned the Cougars because they had the better teams in those years. You can try to say that the mysterious forces came together and conspired to keep victory away from BYU, but that is not the situation. I still maintain that mystique & intimidation have never won a game for anybody. Talent & teamwork will always prevail.

[laxdad03]

I'm sorry, but I just can't buy that. It sounds to me more like a juicy rationalization on the BYU supporters part. They owned the Cougars because they had the better teams in those years. You can try to say that the mysterious forces came together and conspired to keep victory away from BYU, but that is not the situation. I still maintain that mystique & intimidation have never won a game for anybody. Talent & teamwork will always prevail.

That's not what I/we are saying at all. It's not a rationalization, it's an admission of weakness, a reason (as you pointed out) that overall (including all aspects of the game, and the mental aspect is certainly not trivial) they weren't as strong (although BYU did beat CSU handily in regular season 2002). No "mysterious forces conspiring" implied or necessary, and the notion that the mystique was there and played a part in many cases came as much or more from hearing talk and watching faces and body language outside the games than from watching the result of play. I think the world isn't as simple and binary as "... have never won a game for anybody" and "... will always prevail" would suggest; if it were, then nobody would ever bother with the mental aspects.

[byualum]

I still maintain that mystique & intimidation have never won a game for anybody. Talent & teamwork will always prevail.

Are you kidding...you don't think Duke basketball has had a few games go their way when they're at home? You don't think the Bulls in the 90's had a "mystique and intimidation" factor? How many of their playoff series were over before they began...teams knew they could not beat the Bulls. How about the Cowboys in the 90's? I'm not saying it's the deciding factor in all wins...but it's a little short-sighted to think it doesn't factor in.

laxdad is right on...it's not an excuse for BYU, it's an admission of weakness and it will be tough to turn around until they beat CSU/UCSB.

[CATLAX MAN]

I'll go back and check the stats to see if I can find any baskets, TDs or goals scored by either Mystique or Intimidation by those teams. I'm pretty sure, though, I'll be more likely to find names like Christian Laettner, Michael Jordan, Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith, etc. listed more prominently, however.

[bbandlax]

Rather than check the stats you would be better served to go back and ask Bryon Russel, or the DB's covering Michael Irvin, or anybody that has played at Cameron Indoor. Of course talent and teamwork play the major role in most victories. The argument is not against those two factors. The argument, which you seem to wholly dismiss, is that when you have a person/team beat mentally then the game is pretty much over, talent or no. When a team has the confidence they can pull out any game against anybody then they will see a great deal of success.

Think back to your own playing days. If you knew you owned a guy, there could be no stopping you. If you felt he had your number, well then it was an uphill battle.

[Bluevelvet]

I think what Catlaxman is trying to say is that the major reason that CSU has defeated BYU the past few years is that they have a better team.
Although, there is a mental aspect to any game, that is a part of talent. Good teams usually have great concentration and focus.
Intangables such as mystique are really almost like superstition. They can be easily overcome by better talent and concentration.
When a team is intimidated, they lose their concentration and focus. They are not scared or think they will lose before the game starts. They just gradually get run down by superior talent and concentration. Gradually, they crumble, lose focus, make mistakes and lose the game.
If CSU sucked, BYU would have no problem coming to Ft. Collins and thrashing them. The reason they can't and don't is because they are not as good mentally and physically.
Look at the RedSox. After years of losing to the Yankees and having every one say that it was the Yankee mystique. They not only beat the Yankees this year, but came back from a 0-3 deficit. The Mystique didn't disappear, it was that the RedSox had a better team and played better in the last 4 games.
UCSB used to lose to BYU every time. Since UCSB broke through in 2002, they now win every time. UCSB now has a better team. They have better talent, concentration and focus. They don't need mystique.
The time will come when BYU beats UCSB and CSU all the time. It will not be due to mystique, but to the fact that they have a better team.

[DG]

It really doesn't have anything to do with mystique or intimidation.

Catlax, I have to agree with laxdad here. CSU is in BYU's head. CSU has OWNED the Cougars for the past few years.

I'm sorry, but I just can't buy that. It sounds to me more like a juicy rationalization on the BYU supporters part. They owned the Cougars because they had the better teams in those years. You can try to say that the mysterious forces came together and conspired to keep victory away from BYU, but that is not the situation. I still maintain that mystique & intimidation have never won a game for anybody. Talent & teamwork will always prevail.

I usually agree with you Catlax, but can't go that far here. Talent and teamwork will not always prevail. If that was the case, then home field advantage would mean nothing. UCSB would never enjoy any benefit from playing in the Pit (which they obviously do).

There are no mysterious factors here conspiring to keep victory from BYU. CSU has imposed their will on the Cougars for the last 3 years. I'm sure Flip would love to read that...Anyway, I believe that this comes from a combination of talent, teamwork, and outright attitude. There's nothing like confidence (or lack thereof) to affect a team's performance. If the mental part of the game didn't have any bearing on the outcome of sports, then there wouldn't be a cottage industry of psychologist dedicated to helping atheletes perform at their highest levels.

Don't misunderstand me here, I'm giving all of the credit to the Rams for their accomplishments vs BYU. I believe that until they get over their lack of confidence vs. CSU, the Cougars are in for a long dry spell. BYU must get more mentally tough. Period. If that is your definition of being a worse team, then BYU certainly is a worse team than CSU.

Since UCSB broke through in 2002, they now win every time. UCSB now has a better team. They have better talent, concentration and focus. They don't need mystique.

You mean UCSB had the better team last year, right?