Crips Founder Williams Denied Clemency

[Sonny]

Do people who commit murder normalize their own income? Do they normalize the income of their victims? What does income have to do with the anything? In general terms, poor people commit more crimes then rich people. Are you suggesting that we re-distribute all the wealth in the free world to counteract this horrible injustice?

I'm generally on the fence regarding the Death Penalty. I do think it should be a "states right" issue along with many other issues like abortion, etc. (If California wants the Death Penalty, but Oregon does not. So be it. Let the citizens of Oregon deal with the ramifications of their decision.) But the fact remains that there are some people who commit violent crimes that cannot be rehabilitated (regardless of the cost/time involved).

Furthermore, I would argue that isn't society's obligation to rehabilitate those who commit violent crimes. Call me uncaring. Call me fiscal conservative hawk. Call me whatever. There are evil people in this world. And there will be evil people in this world, long after we have all passed. At some point, you have to provide and promote some method of deterrance. Locking them up for life doesn't seem to be working. Espeically when guys like Tookie can write best-selling books from his jail cell.

Here is a question for all of you opposed to the death penalty: If Tookie's death penalty was carried live on TV across the nation, do you think that some gang members (or other criminals) would think twice the next time they picked up a gun?

[Jolly Roger]

I wouldn't be surprised if some individuals didn't try to "get even" for him. His death will not change their mindset.

Would this deter a young person from a path of poor decisions? I can't say.

[Danny Hogan]

hack whats your source on those statistics? interesting stuff.

[jessexy]

what he said...
if the nobel people thought so much of him, he would have won it.

the dude in alabama deserves it as much as tookie, i dent' know why he was given life in prison instead of the death penalty. did alabama have the death penalty at the time of the trial??

the world would have been a better place if tookie was never alive.

Simply being nominated for the award should open the doors of consideration, though. having your nomination accepted by the Nobel people, even without winning, is a tremendous accomplishment. Ex., Mariah Carey made a great album this year and probably wins a Grammy, but the other nominees arent lesser because they didnt win. They were still amazing albums.

People can change. and maybe Tookie changed while on Death Row. I'm not close enough to it, but its at least a consideration to have. Nobel considered, and they are the pre-eminent peace society in the world. if they can give a chance, then why cant we.

im not saying he should or shoudlve been executed, but is sure is a harsh fate for someone trying to give back what he took. especially when there are those on Death Row that will be granted Clemency only to get out and repeat their criminal history.

[StrykerFSU]

First, clemency is only the disposition to show mercy. In this case clemency woule be to spare Tookie's life. If the Gov. had commuted the sentence, that is reduced his sentence, then he might have gone back to the streets. I think that was one of the big flaws within the group that supported Tookie. Some were saying he was innocent and others just categorically oppose the death penalty.

Second, do you think that the families of the four victims agree that Tookie "gave back what he took"?

[Dan Wishengrad]

Here is a question for all of you opposed to the death penalty: If Tookie's death penalty was carried live on TV across the nation, do you think that some gang members (or other criminals) would think twice the next time they picked up a gun?

Sorry, Sonny... but every single scientific study except ONE has proven beyond a doubt that capital punishment is NOT a deterrent. Here is a link to numerous studies from the FBI, Scientific American and many other sources:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article ... 67#STUDIES

Interesting reading! In southern states which have the death penalty and have executed convicted murderers, the murder rate consistently goes UP. Conversely in states that have abolished capital punishment and/or stopped executing the condemmed, the murder rate falls. When Canada abolished the death penalty, murder rates dropped significantly. There has been an overwhelming majority of research which backs up the simple fact that capital punishment is NOT a deterrent to violent crime. The one study produced by proponents of capital punishment contained serious and significant statistical errors.

But the bottom line for me -- and for a growing number of Americans (although we are still the minority), is that the death penalty is dead wrong. It is applied overwhelmingly against the poor who get less than competent legal representation, and black Americans in particular suffer this fate disproportionately also. We have convicted innocent men who were cleared post-mortem of their crimes by DNA evidence.

Do we live in an enlightened society or not? Yes, the bible says "an eye for eye" --- but we are not governed by the bible. The death penalty only serves as a small measure a vengeance for family members of murder victim. But when we execute in the name of law we are also committing state-sponsored murder.

I say toss them in jail forever and throw away the key...

[mbuff]

I've really tried to stay out of this but since Dan is willing to host our offenders, I'll jump in with my 2 cents.

I'm from Texas and we execute more condemed each year than any other state therefore we have become the de facto "whipping boy" of the death penalty debate. Let me offer up a page on Texas executions by race.

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/annual.htmExecutions broken down by race 1982 to present.

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/racial.htmGender and Racial Statistics of Death Row Offenders through November 2005

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/prefurman/racial.htmRacial and Gender Breakdown of Death Row Offenders 1923-1973

The following crimes are Capital Murder [death eligible] in Texas: murder of a public safety officer or firefighter; murder during the commission of kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, arson, or obstruction or retaliation; murder for remuneration; murder during prison escape; murder of a correctional employee; murder by a state prison inmate who is serving a life sentence for any of five offenses (murder, capital murder, aggravated kidnapping, aggravated sexual assault, or aggravated robbery); multiple murders; murder of an individual under six years of age.

It's real simple and was said in a previous post. Don't come to Texas and kill anybody and you won't end up on death row. If you do come here and commit one of the aforementioned heinous crimes, we will kill you by lethal injection.

Case in point, we currently have a wife who solicited SIX PEOPLE to kill her husband. She finally got a mentally handicaped kid to do the deed with three of the other six. She's crying foul because apparently she's working with a 486SX processor and does not understand the word renumeration which equated to a couple of 4-wheelers and a truck to the kid that shot the man while he was sleeping.

Dan, we currently have 410 persons on death row. How about we write them off our books and send them up to Washington where they can live out their lives on your tax dollars. I'm sure that they would really enjoy the northwestern weather as our TDJC facilities are not air conditioned and it tends to be a little warm down here eight months of the year. I see a win-win all the way around on this deal.

[Hackalicious]

Do people who commit murder normalize their own income? Do they normalize the income of their victims? What does income have to do with the anything? In general terms, poor people commit more crimes then rich people. Are you suggesting that we re-distribute all the wealth in the free world to counteract this horrible injustice?

Whoa there partner! We're talking about analyzing statistics. Not redistribution of wealth.

By "normalize for income", I mean that if you compare statistics among different ethnicities by first grouping them by income.

What does income matter have to do with anything? With respect to discrimination in our justice system, one might make an argument that there is no racial discrimination; only class discrimination.

It could just be that poor people commit more crime and cannot afford good lawyers. Since minorities are poorer in our country, that could be an explanation for the disproportionate number of minorities in our criminal system.

To test the hypothesis that race plays a role in conviction rates and sentencing, you'd want to try to look at statistics from two populations as similar as possible in everything except race. That means, you'd want to look at populations with similar income, education, age, and geographic distributions.

[Danny Hogan]

do trailer parks attract tornados?