Big Ten Tournament/U of Wisconsin discussion

by **uwmlax2** on Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:55 pm

Does anyone have the final results of the tournament?

**Sponsor**

by **mholtz** on Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:43 am

Wisconsin won the finals against MSU in a very controversial triple overtime game. I have the video of the "Push" that was called in triple overtime, and our man isn't within 6 feet of the guy he "pushed". Alas, we shouldn't have allowed Wisconsin back in the game after we took our early lead.

In this video, (in triple overtime) the ref's said that #6 from MSU pushed #39 in red (blue helmet) which was the reason he fell. Wisconsin scored the winning goal on the ensuing manup.

You make the call:
http://www.msu.lax.net/penalty.wmv

by **A.J. Stevens** on Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:31 am

I agree it was a controversial call. The weekend was filled with questionable calls. It seemed like new "club" rules were invented each time we played . I see little benefit for MDIA teams to play in a tournament of this format.

On a side note, The MSU squad played well. We look forward to our trip to East Lansing this spring. We may want to consider bringing the Big Ten teams in the MDIA together next year at another site.

by **mholtz** on Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:35 am

My assistant proposed a great idea. Travel the tourney around to various sites.

That way we are all guranteed a good fall ball tourney, yet we don't have to expend the energy every year to run it on our own.

The only thing I can gurantee is that MSU will not play in any tournament unless it uses NCAA rules from now on. The "6 pole" stuff was not helpful for us in the maturation of our team. It's an outdated, changed and antiquated rule for a reason.

I also didn't appreciate the referee telling me when I asked for a clarification on a rule that it was the "stupidest thing I have ever heard".

In fact, when confronted by his partner, and the rule book, I was found to be right, and he said "well, I've never called it that way before, and I'm not going to start calling it that way now". The officiating was not the best, to say the least.

by **the lax** on Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:36 am

Although the phantom push call is clearly the driving middie tripping, you could have made a stronger case for a possible slash or two as the middie was helpless on the ground and being pummeled by two long sticks.
If the ref really wanted to throw the game, calling a slash would have been alot safer bet.

by **mholtz** on Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:44 am

all of those checks were on his stick. If it were illegal to check soeone on the ground with the ball, I'd just get up by one goal, and get my middie to win a faceoff, and then lay on his back for the rest of the game.

And although I am pushing the line of being a sore loser (actually I*m way over it), the call made by the officials was push from behind, and the flag was thrown before the checks on the stick came in. the whistle blew because they got a loose ball.

by **uwmlax2** on Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:30 pm

Despite the call I think it was rather hilarious watching the Wisconsin attackman juke himself out of his shoes.

by **mholtz** on Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:34 pm

In that players defense... he's a talented player. I believe he is from New Jersey and earned all state honors there.

by **laxfan25** on Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:51 am

I'm glad you followed proper protocol and didn't post this on the rules and officiating forum! Push call was rather suspect, and while my screen view was very small, those "stick checks" were pushing the envelope at the very least.
Sounds like there was an accumulation of aggravation about the game, especially if there was an obvious error, shown in the book, and someone still was obstinate in not admitting a mis-interpretation.

by **the lax** on Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:36 pm

Coach I'm not saying the stick checks were slashes. I am suggesting that if the ref really want to botch the game, calling a slash on that play would have revealed his intentions less directly then calling a push, instead of a pull.

by **Zeuslax** on Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:02 pm

Opp's, sniper...................should have thrown the flag from the grassy knoll.

Tough to see whether the checks were on the body. We've all see a guy hit the ground, with the ball in possession, and stick checks start flying. With the player in a precarious position, the ref's are typically going to try protect him. (Usually not before it ever happens)

by **mholtz** on Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:28 pm

the lax wrote:Coach I'm not saying the stick checks were slashes. I am suggesting that if the ref really want to botch the game, calling a slash on that play would have revealed his intentions less directly then calling a push, instead of a pull.

To be quite honest, I wish he would have called a slash instead of a push. Then it would have at least been a judgement call rather than a blatent blowing of the call.

I'm not sure what the ref should do there. The player is in an obviously vulnerable position, they aren't slashes, but both the D-men whacking on his stick are big kids (Chris Zolkower and Will Clugston). If I was that guy on the ground I prolly would had to change my shorts seeing those two over me.

by **The Phantom** on Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:45 pm

Wisconsin has been pulling this crap for years. Their entire season consists of this one "tournament". They don't play by NCAA rules.

They have beens asked repeatedly when they will join the MDIA, to which they reply "Never".

The pull out this "Wisconsin mens club rules/unlimited long sticks" and tell all the other teams the day before they get on the bus.

The refereeing has always been spotty and inconsistent. The lack of calls just based on player safety (ie stick to the throat as "just a brush") was enough to keep me from ever attending it again.

Keep the beer leagues for the summer and let Wisconsin keep filling their own trophy cases with their own trophies from their own tournaments with their own rules.

PS Thanks Matt for the clip. Wicked. Lets see how long it takes before somebody sends you the "you gotta see this clip" e-mail

by **Wisclax** on Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:00 pm

The call on the field was the player was hit numerous times while on the ground. NOT A PUSH. Not sure what term he used. I was right there when the ref expalined his call. He said nothing of hitting in the head but said that "you cant hit a player repeatedly while he is on the ground" AKA SLASH I'm not sure what NCAA rules say about this when a player still has the ball i his stick. While that call is questionable the entire game after the first 10 mins in the first quarter was in wisconsin's momentum. They outshot MSU 2 to 1 and time of possesion was also much greater. As far as complaining about the 6 pole rule i dont see anything wrong with it. It encourages offenses to be that much better and when a team like MSU comes with the amount of players they have they shouldn't be strained to put 6 poles out there unless they lack the talent. The other ref issues had to do with the "set" call on faceoffs which was fixed at half time.

by **mholtz** on Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:02 pm

Wisclax wrote:The call on the field was the player was hit numerous times while on the ground. NOT A PUSH. Not sure what term he used. I was right there when the ref expalined his call. He said nothing of hitting in the head but said that "you cant hit a player repeatedly while he is on the ground" AKA SLASH I'm not sure what NCAA rules say about this when a player still has the ball i his stick. While that call is questionable the entire game after the first 10 mins in the first quarter was in wisconsin's momentum. They outshot MSU 2 to 1 and time of possesion was also much greater. As far as complaining about the 6 pole rule i dont see anything wrong with it. It encourages offenses to be that much better and when a team like MSU comes with the amount of players they have they shouldn't be strained to put 6 poles out there unless they lack the talent. The other ref issues had to do with the "set" call on faceoffs which was fixed at half time.

I was there, and the ref explained it directly to me, personally. The call was a push, and a 30 second penalty, not a slash which would have been a 1 minute penalty.

There were other rule problems that only the officials, and I know about because we talked about them at half time in a meeting between only them and I. The set rule wasn't a big deal.

The problem that I personally have with the 6 stick rule is that it's not the way this league plays, or high schools play, or the NCAA plays. It's not even the way that any of the 3 men's club teams I have played on in the last 10 years play. It doesn't help us prepare for our spring season which is the purpose of our fall season.

We have no problems fielding 6 long poles that can play. We have 14 on our team. The problem I had was that we prepare an offense designed around driving short sticks, and the rules were changed on thursday night, 48 hours before the tournament started, and we didn't have a single practice to prepare for the change of rules. We don't practice with those defensive units on the field at all, so there is a natural confusion when we have our 3 LSM's on the field at the same time.

Wisconsin played well. We shouldn't have let them back into it after we got a lead.