Mascot Ruling

[KerrLax]

I just don't understand how Native Americans claim to be offended because a team uses the Seminoles or the Indians as a mascot. Now if a college decided to be the "Dirty, Savage Caucasian-Killers" I can see how that is offensive. People need to stop being so politically correct, because in today's world, everyone will be offended over some part of every name used and action taken.

[BigheadTodd]

What about "The Lax"'s Wooster Fighting Scots?

[DanGenck]

Dan,

There are also many native americans who view the mascot issue as a fitting tribute to the nobility and culture of those who were displaced. There is always two sides to the coin...

I pointed this out in my post and noted that individual universities and tribes need to decide if they are okay with the mascot issues (specifically people haved noted in this thread that FSU and the Seminole indians are on the same page).

[DanGenck]

I just don't understand how Native Americans claim to be offended because a team uses the Seminoles or the Indians as a mascot. Now if a college decided to be the "Dirty, Savage Caucasian-Killers" I can see how that is offensive. People need to stop being so politically correct, because in today's world, everyone will be offended over some part of every name used and action taken.

Example:

The Schaticoke Indians are currently attempting to lay claim to land that currently belongs to Kent School (where I am employed). If the Schaticokes were able to obtain this land, and therefore take control of the school, would any of us here find it fitting that the new school be known as the-

The Schaticoke School
Fighting Kents!

No, we would probably find the name to be offensive and a bit of a slap in the face considering that we all no longer have anything to do with the school and probably will not work there or attend classes at the institution. We would not see "The Fighting Kents" as a fitting parting gift, but rather a twisted knife in our sides.

As I said before, individual institutions and individual groups should decide this issue. The feelings of one Native American group may not be the same feelings of another.



My wife also came up with a good idea... why not have these institutions bridge the gap between the two parties? Would it really hurt a school like North Dakota to have a few public service announcements at hockey games and maybe some pages on the history of the Sioux indians in the hockey program? Would it hurt to think at the margins a little?

[Dulax31]

To play devil's advocate... would you simply ignore the complaints of people who were offended by mascots?

Yes...when is it going to end? Some tree hugger could complain that Stanford's representation of their mascot does not "fully represent" the correct use of trees. People could say that any school with a dog is mistreatment or misrepresentation of an animal. I mean...it's getting ridiculous.

I heart trees and dogs. I feel ZahGrad's post to be very offensive and ask him to be banned from the boards.

[lil lady lax fan]

My wife also came up with a good idea... why not have these institutions bridge the gap between the two parties? Would it really hurt a school like North Dakota to have a few public service announcements at hockey games and maybe some pages on the history of the Sioux indians in the hockey program? Would it hurt to think at the margins a little?

Actually, the Eastern Michigan alumni organization that is trying to get the Huron name reinstated has teamed up with the Huron Indian Nation on the issue. The group offers a scholarship for students with Native American ancestry as well as provides information about the Hurons. The Hurons are all for the reinstatement. Central Michigan has something set up to teach about the Chippewas and their culture and heritage. I think FSU has something as well. So there are schools out there promoting their mascot's contributions to our society.

I like the blurb in the program idea!

[Sonny]

A follow up article on ESPN.com:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/sto ... 9705204233

[lil lady lax fan]

Time for a small rant, I will be as succinct as possible.

Key words here: hostile and abusive. When has a school ever picked a mascot with those qualities in mind?!! I'll use my daughter's school as an example (They are the Warriors, with an indian in full headdress as their mascot). If you were to ask a student what their mascot represents inevitably they would respond with something along the lines of pride, courage, etc. Their school song also includes references to pride in self, friendship and loyalty along with the warrior name--qualities I, for one, don't find either hostile or abusive. I think you will find that to be the case clear across the board.

Also many elementary schools teach about Native Americans in their history classes, covering the cultures and histories of the tribes indigineous to the area. I know this to be the case in California. I also distinctly remember covering the subject when I was in grade school in Michigan--and that was way back in the early 70's--so it's not like this is a new development.

As for the mascots being a slap in the face to the Native Americans they represent that is a great big pile of hoowee. All that this is going to accomplish is to engender a sense of resentment toward Native Americans as a whole because of the actions of a few. It's a pity these individuals have their blinders on so tight that they don't see the damage their tunnel vision is doing to race relations.

And finally, if the Schaticoke Indians called themselves the 'Fighting Kents' as a means to honor the previous occupants then what's the problem? Yes, there would be resentment on the part of the previous tenants but it doesn't change the fact that the Shaticoke would be trying to heal the schism through their actions. A forward-thinking individual might even use this as an opportunity to bridge the gap and establish a link between the former and current residents, thus leading to better relations between the two groups. It is your choice whether to nurture your resentment and dwell on the past or try to set aside the differences and work toward a more equitable future. The same holds true with this mascot issue.

Oh, and Dan, I'm sorry you and your school are having to deal with such a problem. I hope things work out for both parties involved. Good luck.

[DanGenck]

Yes, there would be resentment on the part of the previous tenants but it doesn't change the fact that the Shaticoke would be trying to heal the schism through their actions. A forward-thinking individual might even use this as an opportunity to bridge the gap and establish a link between the former and current residents, thus leading to better relations between the two groups.

Oh, and Dan, I'm sorry you and your school are having to deal with such a problem. I hope things work out for both parties involved. Good luck.

I see where you are coming from and I commend you for your positive attitude toward these situations, but I must make my point once again that simply thinking forward will not undo what has happened in the past. If you take away my lifestyle, my land and my heritage, it may always be hard for me to break bread with you... and I may never find solace in a mascot name.

I do see your point and I really think that most universities and native american tribes should work to find a middle ground; I just am trying to lay a groundwork for the opposition in this case. The only reason I have even taken the other side in this discussion is because I was surprised initially at how many people did not consider the opposition. As a teacher of writing, I am unfortunately programmed to notice such things and even though I am being a pill, I personally am not all that offended by mascot names.

As for Kent School, and many other places in Connecticut, there have been a lot of claims to land in the past 10+ years. In fact, the largest casino in the United States (Foxwoods) was actually built on land given back in such a claim. Unfortunately, our school is built on native american land and someday we could be forced to give it all up. If that is the case, we are feeling the repercussion of our ancestry's poor dealership with native people in this area. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Sonny]

As for Kent School, and many other places in Connecticut, there have been a lot of claims to land in the past 10+ years. In fact, the largest casino in the United States (Foxwoods) was actually built on land given back in such a claim. Unfortunately, our school is built on native american land and someday we could be forced to give it all up. If that is the case, we are feeling the repercussion of our ancestry's poor dealership with native people in this area. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Isn't all of North American considered "Native American" land? Assuming you answer in the affirmative... what is your solution to this "problem" in this day and age?

[Dan Wishengrad]

Native Hawaiians are also native Americans. Interestingly enough, for years the University of Hawai'i nickname/mascot was simply the "Rainbows" (maybe only Leprechauns could be offended by that). But during the late 70s or early 80s some UH boosters decided that nickname was just too wimpy, so it was changed to "Rainbow Warriors" to be more macho -- complete with a logo of a native Hawaiian warrior in ceremonial battle gear.

While many wars had been fought in the history of the Sandwich Isles, the Hawaiians were, by and large, a remarkably peaceful people. Some native Hawaiians filed a mild protest over the new "improved" UH mascot as being non-representative of their peace-loving people. But the new mascot stuck.

Personally the only truly offensive nickname in my opinion is the Washington Redskins. But then I am not a native American so can't qualify to say whether other mascots are offensive to some other folks.

[Brent Burns]

Personally the only truly offensive nickname in my opinion is the Washington Redskins. But then I am not a native American so can't qualify to say whether other mascots are offensive to some other folks.

This attempt at some kind of humor may not work well, but I'm going to try. We all know that the Redskins refer to Native Americans, but it can be apropos for those Redskins fanatics sitting in the sun all afternoon, bathing themselves in the sun, etc. They go home with red skin. Er, it is not only confined to the Redskins games, but it can be true at other places.

[lil lady lax fan]

Scientists usually like to work by consensus so finding a middle ground is often essential. That is why I always try to see things from the others perspective in order to suggest a compromise. True, we will always have to deal with extremists at both ends who will never be happy with any solution but their own--something I'm sure you're probably having to deal with, Dan. Hopefully some kind of agreement can be brokered to keep your school up and running (yes, there's that positive attitude kicking in again!). I'm no lawyer so I can't make any useful suggestions for your case other than to avoid leavening the atmosphere with a joke...just some food for thought.

And having someone play devils advocate always makes things more fun.

[DanGenck]

As for Kent School, and many other places in Connecticut, there have been a lot of claims to land in the past 10+ years. In fact, the largest casino in the United States (Foxwoods) was actually built on land given back in such a claim. Unfortunately, our school is built on native american land and someday we could be forced to give it all up. If that is the case, we are feeling the repercussion of our ancestry's poor dealership with native people in this area. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Isn't all of North American considered "Native American" land? Assuming you answer in the affirmative... what is your solution to this "problem" in this day and age?

Good question. The best answer is probably something along the lines of what I stated earlier; thinking at the margins. It's really not in anyone's best interest to crash the American economy and lifestyle in order to give land back to Native Americans, but it's certainly not a good idea to completely ignore the issue either. I think that states like Connecticut (and I'm sure many others) are on the right path by giving back what can be given back and working to raise state/national awareness about individual tribes and groups (for example, at St. John's in Minnesota we had an extensive Ojibwe course selection in our history and english departments).

As I've said before, it's a tough issue that both sides need to meet halfway on, whether we're talking about mascot names, Native American school funding or casino gaming.

[Pinball]

when i start my own college i plan to name it the Fighting Half German Half Swedish Stupid Face Dan Gencks and see if mr. genck likes it!!!