SELC A Championship Weekend (Discuss, Report Scores, etc)

[Kevin OBrien]

Friday, April 22, 2005
Men’s Quarterfinal #1 (A) University of Georgia (4) vs. University of Florida (5) @ 5:45
Men’s Quarterfinal #2 (A) Virginia Tech (3) vs. North Carolina State (6) 8:00 PM

Saturday, April 23, 2005
Northview JV vs. Centennial JV 10:00 AM
Men’s Semifinals #1 (B) Appalachian State (1) vs. Emory (4) 12:00 PM
Men’s Semifinals #2 (B) Liberty (2) vs. Davidson (3) 2:30 PM

Men’s Semifinal #1 (A) Florida State (1) vs. Winner of A QF #1 5:00
Men’s Semifinal #2 (A) Georgia Tech (2) vs. Winner of A QF #2 7:30

Sunday, April 24, 2005
Men’s A Division Consolation (3rd Place) 10:00 AM
Men’s B Division Championship 12:15
Men’s A Division Championship 2:45

Please note, even though the entire schedule was posted, please use this thread to discuss the A Division

[Coach Peterson]

How was #2 and #3 decided with the same conference and divisional record and no head-to-head play?

[ncsulacrosse]

goals against in mandatory games.

[Coach Peterson]

Just my .02, but it doesn't seem fair to use goals against in mandatory games as the tie-breaker rather than in the whole conference or in games against mutual opponents. So South Carolina forfeits (1-0) and Ga. Tech gets the bye by a goal?

Sounds like a good bylaw to amend in the future.

[Ken Lovic]

coach, it what's we have for now. Reading is fundemental- read the handbook provided to each team in the fall meeting.

to answer your remark about USC- we had more than a 1 goal advantage over VT in the goals against

We both played the same number of mandatory games. USC forfeited to us 90 minutes before the game- that is a game. We had the field set up, referees in place, parents in town etc... and they did not show up after playing the night before, not real fair to us.

As to your similar opponents approach we still allowed less. We are going to tweak the system but this is not the time for it. Maybe you all should have spoken up at the fall league meeting.

Coach is you have some ideas please share? We have been through many different systems and this is what we have for now and everyone knew it going into the season. Seems like no matter the system there is a hole or flaw if you look hard enough.

We are going to look into other tie breakers for the future; one of our topics for the summer meeting. The Exec Board does not just sit around and make things up on the spot. We look into many alternative ideas and try to come up with a sound system of tie breakers. A few years back our tie breakers were very poorly written and I feel we are on the right track but there is room for improvement. We have 3 divisions in A and it makes it hard to come up with something concrete that everyone will be happy with.

[Coach Peterson]

Ken,

I merely suggested that mandatory game goals against didn't seem like a very fair tiebreaker when the mandatory opponents aren't the same and you can't do anything about the talent we face in our divisions.

You are correct that the goals against differential in mandatory games is not 1. I mistakenly just added up the conference opponent games. I assume the FLState game is a mandatory game for both teams, but I don't know that for certain. Not knowing which one of the 7 SELC games each team played isn't mandatory for each team, here's the Goals Against record for both teams in the SELC games they played.

VA Tech Goals Against - WAKE 4 - NCSU 7 - ECU 4 - CLEM 4 - TN 2 - FLST 17 - VAND 5 Total 43

GA TECH Goals Against WAKE 2 - NCSU 7 - SC 0 - GA 5 - TN 7- FLST 9 - VAND 6 Total 36

Even with my suggestion (against mutual opponents) Ga. Tech comes out on top.

VA Tech: 4 7 2 17 5 = 35
GA Tech: 2 7 7 9 6 = 31

That is not to say that I think the mandatory game goals against is a good tiebreaker. I still think something else should be used. I also suggested it would be a good thing to change in the future.

You DO seem defensive about it.

In the NFL here's how they do it:

1# Head-to-head, if applicable.
2# Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
3# Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
4# Strength of victory. (cumulative record of the teams you beat)
5# Strength of schedule.
6# Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
7# Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
8# Best net points in conference games.
9# Best net points in all games.
10# Best net touchdowns in all games.
11# Coin toss.

The touchdowns (#10) might not be applicable to lacrosse.

Peace,
Life is Short, Play Lacrosse Hard

[Kevin OBrien]

This isn't the first tiebreaker in line, it went down to the third. It's a problem, no one will deny that, but the only answer is for every team to play every other team to figure out seedings. Although that would make for a great spring (and probably summer and a bit of fall) it's not real feasible. Situations like this come up, but there isn't any sort of quick fix that will change this. On the bright side, it's not like a team was left out of the tournament because of it.]

The idea is to not make it goals scored so that a team doesn't have an incentive to pound the crap out of a lesser team just as insurance for seeding in the tournament. The incentive is the same to leave in starters (if the tiebreaker is goals scored against) on the defense as is to leave in starters (in goals scored) on offense. Defense, as always, wins championships (and determines seedings).

[Choppy49er]

Reguardless of tiebrakers, (my opinion is always if you are the superior team you will prevail) I can't wait to hear about the finals. It has been a giant source of discussion who the best team is in the SELC... FSU,. VT, or GT. THis is the best way to answer that.

I think that we will see Florida State control Florida.
But Georgia Tech will have a tougher time against Virginia Tech.

Final game Florida State over Virginia Tech. 13-8

[StrykerFSU]

Final game Florida State over Virginia Tech. 13-8

16-8 if FSU wears the drrrrty black unis.

[AlumniLax]

arent you guys giving away your "cool" little secret?

[Beta]

Are you officiating any of the games Sonny, are you going to be there with your laptop keeping everyone updated?

[Sonny]

Are you officiating any of the games Sonny, are you going to be there with your laptop keeping everyone updated?

Both. Don't know the Internet situation at Northview, but I will try my best to keep everyone updated.

[Rob Graff]

Hope the weather clears and you don't have constant thunderstorms.

[Couch14]

Ok, so a few years back we had the same situation with people complaining about how the rankings worked out for the post-season. New season, same complaints about GT getting a bid over other conference whiners who apparently did nothing in the off season to change things. The issue back then was goals against playing too large a roll in the decision as well.

Funny, I don't remember the GT boys doing much public complaining about the fact that they had to play 2 games in one day due to weather when they finished the season as the #2 team in the conference a couple years ago.

And giving up 17 goals to ANYBODY, regardless of whether it was FSU or not????

GT, stay classy and keep playin tough D. Good luck this weekend.

[LAXDawg14]

UGA 9
UF 8 in double overtime

Georgia was down 2 with 1:50 left in the 4th. Then scored and UF got possesion of ball and at :40 seconds left stepped out of the box. Gerogia took the ball down to the other end and missed 2 shots but retained possesion then with :07 seconds left Dumped it in with a wide open man on the crease.

tough played game on both ends of the field.