Nike / IL MCLA Division I Poll - 04/16/2013

[LaxTV_Admin]

1. Colorado State (26) 698
2. Colorado (2) 674
3. Chapman 623
4. Brigham Young 599
5. UCSB 570
6. Arizona State 569
7. Sonoma State 502
8. Stanford 475
9. Boston college 471
10. California 470
11. Oregon 400
12. Grand Canyon 375
13. Michigan State 373
14. Texas 344
15. Oregon State 297
16. Minnesota-Duluth 246
17. Davenport 229
18. Connecticut 228
19. Simon Fraser 219
20. Pittsburgh 188
21. Arizona 138
22. Cal Poly 125
23. Georgia 98
24. Northeastern 77
25. Virginia Tech 29

Others Receiving Votes
Gerogia Tech (19), Minnesota (18), Indiana (12), Southern Methodist (8), Central Florida (7), Clemson (6), Richmond (4), Texas State (3), Florida State (2), Boston University (2), UNLV (1)

[BYULAX31]

Not a ton of movement this week. The top 10 stayed the same, just a different order, and the top 25 only had 1 team drop out (Georgia Tech out, Northeastern in).

Biggest surprise for me is how hard ASU dropped. Judging by the upcoming schedule, there is plenty of important games left to sort out any discrepancies.

Virginia Tech shouldn't be ranked. No top 25 wins and 8 losses isn't a top 25 resume. I'd rather give a team like Indiana a chance at a top 25 spot. They both have unranked losses, but Indiana hasn't lost 8 times. My personal feeling is we give too much credit to the "blue bloods" and are reluctant to add some new faces. If not Indiana, just someone else.

My gut tells me most voters are just working off their last week poll and moving teams around without considering who should move in and out.

#1 Colorado State

High Water Mark #3 Chapman
Low Water Mark: None
Top 10 Wins: #3 Chapman, #4 BYU, #5 UCSB
Top 10 Losses: None
Top 10-25 Wins: #13 Michigan State, #19 Simon Fraser #23 Georgia, #25 Virginia Tech
Top 10-25 Losses: None
Top 10 Win Total: 3
Top 25 Win Total: 7


#2 Colorado

High Water Mark # 3 Chapman
Low Water Mark: None
Top 10 Wins: #3 Chapman, #4 BYU, #5 UCSB
Top 10 Losses: None
Top 10-25 Wins: #11 Oregon, #19 Simon Fraser, #22 Cal Poly, #23 Georgia, #25 Virginia Tech
Top 10-25 Losses: None
Top 10 Win Total: 3
Top 25 Win Total: 8


#3 Chapman

High Water Mark #6 ASU
Low Water Mark: #11 Oregon
Top 10 Wins: #6 ASU
Top 10 Losses: #1 CSU, #2 Colorado, #4 BYU,
Top 10-25 Wins: #12 Grand Canyon, #22 Cal Poly,
Top 10-25 Losses: #11 Oregon
Top 10 Win Total: 1
Top 25 Win Total: 3

#4 BYU

High Water Mark: #3 Chapman
Low Water Mark: #6 ASU
Top 10 Wins: #3 Chapman, #8 Stanford, #10 Cal
Top 10 Losses: #1 CSU, #2 Colorado, #6 ASU
Top 10-25 Wins #11 Oregon, #12 Grand Canyon, #21 Arizona
Top 10-25 Losses: None
Top 10 Win Total: 2
Top 25 Win Total: 6

#5 UCSB

High Water Mark: #7 Sonoma State
Low Water Mark: #8 Stanford
Top 10 Wins: #7 Sonoma State, #10 Cal
Top 10 Losses: #1 CSU, #2 CU, #6 ASU, #8 Stanford
Top 10-25 Wins: #14 Texas, #12 Grand Canyon, #22 Cal Poly, #24 Northeastern
Top 10-25 Losses: None
Top 10 Win Total: 2
Top 25 Win Total: 6

#6 Arizona State:

High Water Mark: #4 BYU
Low Water Mark: #12 Grand Canyon
Top 10 Wins: #4 BYU, #5 UCSB, #10 California,
Top 10 Losses: #3 Chapman
Top 10-25 Wins #17 Davenport, #16 Minnesota Duluth, #22 Cal Poly
Top 10-25 Losses #12 Grand Canyon
Top 10 Win Total: 3
Top 25 Win Total: 6


#7 Sonoma State

High Water Mark: #8 Stanford
Low Water Mark: #15 Oregon State
Top 10 Wins: #8 Stanford #10 Cal
Top 10 Losses: #5 UCSB
Top 10-25 Wins: #14 Texas, #22 Cal Poly #25 Virginia Tech, #20 Pitt
Top 10-25 Losses: #11 Oregon, #15 Oregon State
Top 10 Win Total: 2
Top 25 Win Total: 6

#8 Stanford

High Water Mark: #5 UCSB
Low Water Mark: #7 Sonoma State
Top 10 Wins: #5 UCSB
Top 10 Losses: #4 BYU, #7 Sonoma State
Top 10-25 Wins: #11 Oregon, #15 Oregon State, #24 Northeastern
Top 10-25 Losses: None
Top 10 Win Total: 1
Top 25 Win Total: 4

#9 Boston College

High Water Mark: #14 Texas
Low Water Mark: None
Top 10 Wins: None
Top 10 Losses: #None
Top 10-25 Wins: #14 Texas, #18 Uconn
Top 10-25 Losses: None
Top 10 Win Total: 0
Top 25 Win Total: 2


#10 Cal

High Water Mark: #11 Oregon
Low Water Mark: #7 Sonoma
Top 10 Wins: None
Top 10 Losses: #6 ASU, #4 BYU, #5 UCSB, #7 Sonoma
Top 10-25 Wins: #11 Oregon, #22 Cal Poly, #21 Arizona, #24 Northeastern
Top 10-25 Losses: None
Top 10 Win Total: 0
Top 25 Win Total: 4


#11 Oregon

High Water Mark: #3 Chapman
Low Water Mark: #10 Cal
Top 10 Wins: #3 Chapman, #7 Sonoma State
Top 10 Losses: #2 Colorado, #4 BYU, #8 Stanford, #10 Cal
Top 10-25 Wins: #18 Simon Fraser
Top 10-25 Losses: None
Top 10 Win Total: 2
Top 25 Win Total: 3


#12 Grand Canyon

High Water Mark: #6 ASU
Low Water Mark: #22 Cal Poly
Top 10 Wins: #6 ASU
Top 10 Losses: #3 Chapman, #4 BYU, #5 UCSB
Top 10-25 Wins: #17 Davenport, #21 Arizona,
Top 10-25 Losses: #22 Cal Poly
Top 10 Win Total: 1
Top 25 Win Total: 3


#13 Michigan State

High Water Mark: #16 Minnesota Duluth
Low Water Mark: #19 Simon Fraser
Top 10 Wins: None
Top 10 Losses: #1 CSU
Top 10-25 Wins: #16 Minnesota Duluth, #25 Virginia Tech, #20 Pitt
Top 10-25 Losses: #18 Simon Fraser
Top 10 Win Total: 0
Top 25 Win Total: 3

#14 Texas

High Water Mark: None
Low Water Mark: #9 Boston College
Top 10 Wins: None
Top 10 Losses: #5 UCSB #7 Sonoma, #9 Boston College
Top 10-25 Wins: None
Top 10-25 Losses: None
Top 10 Win Total: 0
Top 25 Win Total: 0

#15 Oregon State

High Water Mark: #7 Sonoma State
Low Water Mark: #19 Simon Fraser
Top 10 Wins: #7 Sonoma State
Top 10 Losses: #8 Stanford
Top 10-25 Wins: None
Top 10-25 Losses: #19 Simon Fraser
Top 10 Win Total: 1
Top 25 Win Total: 1

#16 Minnesota Duluth

High Water Mark: #22 Cal Poly
Low Water Mark: #13 Michigan State
Top 10 Wins: None
Top 10 Losses: #1 Colorado State, #6 ASU,
Top 10-25 Wins: #22 Cal Poly
Top 10-25 Losses: #13 Michigan State
Top 10 Win Total: 0
Top 25 Win Total: 1


#17 Davenport

High Water Mark: #19 Simon Fraser
Low Water Mark: #20 Pitt
Top 10 Wins: None
Top 10 Losses: #6 ASU,
Top 10-25 Wins: #19 Simon Fraser, #21 Arizona, #25 Virginia Tech
Top 10-25 Losses: #12 Grand Canyon, #20 Pitt
Top 10 Win Total: 0
Top 25 Win Total: 3


#18 Uconn

High Water Mark: #25 Virginia Tech
Low Water Mark: #9 Boston College
Top 10 Wins: None
Top 10 Losses: #9 Boston College
Top 10-25 Wins: #25 Virginia Tech, #24 Northeastern
Top 10-25 Losses: None
Top 10 Win Total: 0
Top 25 Win Total: 2


#19 Simon Fraser

High Water Mark: #13 Michigan State
Low Water Mark: #23 Arizona
Top 10 Wins: None
Top 10 Losses: #1 Colorado State, #2 Colorado
Top 10-25 Wins: #15 Oregon State, #25 Virginia Tech
Top 10-25 Losses: #11 Oregon, #17 Davenport, #21 Arizona State
Top 10 Win Total: 0
Top 25 Win Total: 2


#20 Pitt

High Water Mark: #17 Davenport
Low Water Mark: #24 Northeastern
Top 10 Wins: None
Top 10 Losses: #7 Sonoma State
Top 10-25 Wins: #17 Davenport
Top 10-25 Losses: #13 Michigan State, UR Georgia Tech
Unranked Losses: Northeastern
Top 10 Win Total: 0
Top 25 Win Total: 1

#21 Arizona

High Water Mark: #19 Simon Fraser
Low Water Mark: #12 Grand Canyon
Top 10 Wins: None
Top 10 Losses: #4 BYU, #10 Cal
Top 10-25 Wins: #19 Simon Fraser
Top 10-25 Losses: #17 Davenport #12 Grand Canyon,
Top 10 Win Total: 0
Top 25 Win Total: 1



#22 Cal Poly

High Water Mark: #12 Grand Canyon
Low Water Mark: #16 Minnesota Duluth
Top 10 Wins: None
Top 10 Losses: #2 Colorado, #6 ASU, #3 Chapman, #5 UCSB #7 Sonoma #10 Cal
Top 10-25 Wins: #12 Grand Canyon
Top 10-25 Losses: #16 Minnesota Duluth,
Top 10 Win Total: 0
Top 25 Win Total: 1


#23 Georgia

High Water Mark: None
Low Water Mark: UR Clemson
Top 10 Wins: None
Top 10 Losses: #1 Colorado State, #2 Colorado
Top 10-25 Wins: None
Top 10-25 Losses: None
Unranked Losses: Clemson
Top 10 Win Total: 0
Top 25 Win Total: 0

#24 Northeastern

High Water Mark: #20 Pitt
Low Water Mark: #18 UConn
Top 10 Wins: None
Top 10 Losses: #5 UCSB, #8 Stanford, #10 Cal
Top 10-25 Wins: #20 Pitt
Top 10-25 Losses: #18 UConn
Top 10 Win Total: 0
Top 25 Win Total: 1


#25 Virginia Tech

High Water Mark:
Low Water Mark: UR South Carolina, UR Georgia Tech
Top 10 Wins: None
Top 10 Losses: #1 Colorado State, #2 Colorado, #7 Sonoma State
Top 10-25 Wins:
Top 10-25 Losses: #13 Michigan State, #17 Davenport, #18 Uconn, #19 Simon Fraser
Unranked Losses: South Carolina, Georgia Tech
Top 10 Win Total: 0
Top 25 Win Total: 0

[LaxTV_Admin]

Not a ton of movement this week. The top 10 stayed the same, just a different order, and the top 25 only had 1 team drop out (Georgia Tech out, Northeastern in).

Biggest surprise for me is how hard ASU dropped. Judging by the upcoming schedule, there is plenty of important games left to sort out any discrepancies.

Agreed it was surprising, but I think most people who voted didn't have Grand Canyon as high as you did. I think BYU, ASU, UCSB all have similar resumes and could rank them in any order and not really be wrong.

Virginia Tech shouldn't be ranked. No top 25 wins and 8 losses isn't a top 25 resume. I'd rather give a team like Indiana a chance at a top 25 spot. They both have unranked losses, but Indiana hasn't lost 8 times. My personal feeling is we give too much credit to the "blue bloods" and are reluctant to add some new faces. If not Indiana, just someone else.

Agreed. I literally took an extra 15 minutes just to find a team to put into the Top 25. I chose Texas State over Indiana based off Texas State only losing to Top 25 teams where as Indiana has a loss to Ohio. I don't know that either team is worthy, but with 8 losses VT doesn't belong.

With that being said and having played VT. They are a talented team and certainly are capable of playing Top 15 level lacrosse. I certainly wouldn't want to see a team with that much talent on their roster. Scary how good they could be on any given day.

My gut tells me most voters are just working off their last week poll and moving teams around without considering who should move in and out.

Geez, I hope not. I use last week's poll as a barometer test and to make sure I am consistent. As the season has worn on my rankings have become a bit more cemented as teams are continuing to prove where they belong. However, I hope voters are not just swapping teams around. That isn't right.

[BYULAX31]

Agreed it was surprising, but I think most people who voted didn't have Grand Canyon as high as you did. I think BYU, ASU, UCSB all have similar resumes and could rank them in any order and not really be wrong.

I'll leave BYU out because of obvious bias (but in fairness I voted us 4, where we are), but I think UCSB and ASU both have produced resumes that are more complete than Chapman.

Chapman currently has 1 top 10 win (0 top 5 wins) and 3 total top 25 wins.

UCSB has 2 top ten wins (0 top 5) and 6 total top 25 wins.

ASU has 3 top ten wins (2 top 5) and 6 total top 25 wins.

They only justification for Chapman being above either team is the fabled "good loss".

Again as a reiteration, I only use margin of victory/loss as a tie breaker, and in my mind no tie breaker is needed with these teams. There is enough body of evidence in the resume. If we want to take into account scores, let's remember that ASU won their top 5 games by an average of 7.5 goals.

All that said, it's pretty much going to be moot after this weekend. UCSB/Chapman will clear up a lot of it up.

[BYULAX31]

The Massey Ratings Seem to Support my theory:

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cl ... &sub=95788

1. Colorado St
2. Colorado
3. Arizona St
4. BYU
5. Santa Barbara
6. Chapman
7. Boston College
8. Sonoma St
9. Michigan St
10. California
11. Grand Canyon
12. Connecticut
13. Stanford
14. Texas
15. Oregon
16. Davenport
17. Arizona
18. Simon Fraser
19. Pittsburgh
20. Oregon St
21. Cal Poly SLO
22. Georgia
23. MN Duluth
24. Northeastern
25. Virginia Tech

[BYULAX31]

Another interesting note, The Massey Ratings predict Chapman beating UCSB 9-8 this weekend.

http://masseyratings.com/pred.php?s=clax2013&sub=95788

[Ravaging Beast]

ASU is better than UCSB in my opinion. ASU may have played their best game against the Gauchos, but that should not matter. They crushed UCSB. I still think GCU is underrated as is Texas. Texas has only lost to #5, #7, and #9 all by a single goal. And two of the games were on the road.

[LaxTV_Admin]

Agreed it was surprising, but I think most people who voted didn't have Grand Canyon as high as you did. I think BYU, ASU, UCSB all have similar resumes and could rank them in any order and not really be wrong.

I'll leave BYU out because of obvious bias (but in fairness I voted us 4, where we are), but I think UCSB and ASU both have produced resumes that are more complete than Chapman.

Chapman currently has 1 top 10 win (0 top 5 wins) and 3 total top 25 wins.

UCSB has 2 top ten wins (0 top 5) and 6 total top 25 wins.

ASU has 3 top ten wins (2 top 5) and 6 total top 25 wins.

They only justification for Chapman being above either team is the fabled "good loss".

Again as a reiteration, I only use margin of victory/loss as a tie breaker, and in my mind no tie breaker is needed with these teams. There is enough body of evidence in the resume. If we want to take into account scores, let's remember that ASU won their top 5 games by an average of 7.5 goals.

All that said, it's pretty much going to be moot after this weekend. UCSB/Chapman will clear up a lot of it up.

Hard to argue with most of that logic. I do think that all of those teams are neck and neck and given that Chapman beat ASU who beat BYU & UCSB warrants Chapman being in the discussion for that position. I am not getting into the A beat B who beat C so C beats A discussion. Not it at all. Just stating in this case, there is head to head and common opponents to compare which cause some inferences to be made one way or the other.

Long story short, I think all of those teams are fairly close. I also, don't want to comment much on SSU as an obvious bias, and for the record I voted SSU #7.

[Dan Wishengrad]

I also have a bias, but it seems to me that based on resume, a number of PCLL teams are over-rated in the rankings, having no Top 10 or OOC Top-25 win. Conversely, Oregon State and Simon Fraser of the PNCLL are under-ranked by the same type of resume review.

Oregon State, for example, lost it's first two games of the season at ranked Simon Fraser by 2 goals and at Top 10 Stanford by a goal. Since then OSU has won all it's games, including over a Top 10 team (Sonoma). Shouldn't this vault Oregon State higher in the polls over teams which have no such Top 10 wins on their resume?

Simon Fraser has beaten teams ranked higher than they are (i.e. Michigan State), and on the road. The Clans' ranking also seems a little low based on this resume, unless the loss to ranked Arizona is what the pollsters decided was a "bad loss".

It seems some teams are being rewarded for playing a soft schedule, while others are being penalized for losing to (and beating) tougher opponents.

[BYULAX31]

I also have a bias, but it seems to me that based on resume, a number of PCLL teams are over-rated in the rankings, having no Top 10 or OOC Top-25 win. Conversely, Oregon State and Simon Fraser of the PNCLL are under-ranked by the same type of resume review.

Oregon State, for example, lost it's first two games of the season at ranked Simon Fraser by 2 goals and at Top 10 Stanford by a goal. Since then OSU has won all it's games, including over a Top 10 team (Sonoma). Shouldn't this vault Oregon State higher in the polls over teams which have no such Top 10 wins on their resume?

Simon Fraser has beaten teams ranked higher than they are (i.e. Michigan State), and on the road. The Clans' ranking also seems a little low based on this resume, unless the loss to ranked Arizona is what the pollsters decided was a "bad loss".

It seems some teams are being rewarded for playing a soft schedule, while others are being penalized for losing to (and beating) tougher opponents.

Do you think Oregon is under ranked? I have a hard time deciding where to put them, but I think they have a very solid resume.

Based on the rankings the Oregon/Oregon State game this year should be a close one. Do you think the game will reflect that?

[Ravaging Beast]

Based on the rankings the Oregon/Oregon State game this year should be a close one. Do you think the game will reflect that?

I'm willing to bet that OSU wins that game.

[Chris Larson]

That would be a fun game to watch -- calling Panchito and Lax.TV!

[LaxTV_Admin]

That would be a fun game to watch -- calling Panchito and Lax.TV!

It is going to be on LaxTV! http://lax.tv/link/9390/. Tell your friends and family. Let's get over 5,000 viewers watching. Finish this season strong with LaxTV and an awesome Top 25 game that has MAJOR Greenville implications.

[BYULAX31]

Based on the rankings the Oregon/Oregon State game this year should be a close one. Do you think the game will reflect that?

I'm willing to bet that OSU wins that game.

This tweet from Dave Franklin sounds like Oregon may be without some of their top guys.

https://twitter.com/DFranklin97/status/ ... 4351466496

Oppenheimer is the real deal, so that's a major loss if true. Going to be a great game either way.

[LaxTchr]

Based on the rankings the Oregon/Oregon State game this year should be a close one. Do you think the game will reflect that?

I'm willing to bet that OSU wins that game.

I have been saying since our trip north to play Oregon and Oregon State that Oregon State will win the PNCLL. My prediction: Oregon State 11 Oregon 9