Obama Clinches Nomination

[laxfan25]

I guess there are two ways of looking at the numbers from the Heritage Foundation. I am assuming the dollar amounts are from around 2005, since that is one of the dates included.
First, the minimum wage was stuck at $5.15 from 1997 to 2007 - 10 years without an increase. I'm sure living costs were flat during that period. (also, when they pushed through the increase in 1997, the GOP stuck in a provision that workers under 20 would have a minimum wage of $4.85). Someone working 40 hours at that rate would gross $10,712, with the poverty line at $19,806 for a family of four.. That would seem to fit the definition of working poor.
Now the average family income of $33,600 for minimum wage workers is for those over 24 - not white pimply-faced kids in the mall. How many of these working poor are working multiple jobs in order to get that higher level of family income, or have both parents working?

* More than half—56 percent—work part-time jobs.

And how many work "part-time' jobs because their employer purposefully cuts them off so that they don't have to pay any benefits? How many minumum wage workers have ANY health care coverage through work?

* Just 23 percent live in poverty, while 45 percent have incomes over twice the poverty line.

Or looked at differently, 23% (1 out of 4!) of those working at minimum wage over the age of 24 are living below the poverty line. 55% don't even earn twice the level of the poverty line.

* They are better educated than younger minimum wage workers. Just 22 percent have less than a high school education, while 39 percent have only a high school diploma and 21 percent have taken some college classes.

Or, 6 out of 10 only have a HS diploma, and over 8 out of 10 don't have a college degree).

* 66 percent are women.

And I know many women that will be happy to discuss wage disparity with you.

* 43 percent are married.

So 57% are divorced/single? How many have children to raise?

Lastly, how do they rectify these two statements?

Minimum wage-earners’ average family income is almost $50,000 per year

, or

Even the vast majority of older adults who earn the minimum wage live above the poverty line. They have an average family income of $33,600 a year.

$33.6K seems to be a long way from $50K.

Here is chart from the Dept of Labor that compares the minimum wage to the poverty line (with dollars shown in 2007 dollars).



My belief is that an increase in the minimum wage is NOT going to bring about the ruination of our economy - the smart guys on Wall Street are doing a pretty good job on their own.

The nice thing about elections is that they help determine national priorities. Some people feel that the hundreds of billions of dollars being spent on Iraq would be better spent taking care of Americans at home - providing basic health care, infrastructure, education and security. Yes, that spigot is not going to be turned off overnight, but at least start cutting back on the flow.
That being said, I'm not a Pollyanna. One issue is the fact there there isn't as much discretionary spending in the budget as many might believe - there are a ton of fixed costs that are going to be there regardless. (Just the payoffs we have to make to the Chinese for the interest on the credit card is breathtaking). Also, no one ever went broke underestimating the hypocrisy of the American voter towards government. They have shown time and again that they like being the beneficiaries of gov't programs, they just don't want to PAY for them. Just like the low ratings of "Congress" - an institution with a re-election rate of over 90%. The other guy sucks!
No candidate that wants to be elected can be entirely truthful during the campaign, whether it is Obama, Clinton or McCain. There is a price to be paid for keeping this as the greatest country in the world, I at least recognize that fact.

[StrykerFSU]

Many advocates of higher minimum wages argue that the minimum wage needs to rise to help low-income single parents. However, minimum wage workers do not fit this stereotype more than the population as a whole. Just 6.1 percent of minimum wage workers over the age of 24 are single parents working full-time, compared to 6.3 percent of all hourly workers.[6]

Same source.

6 out of 10 only have a HS diploma, and over 8 out of 10 don't have a college degree

I am not surprised that there is a connection between getting an education and future income. Or else I wouldn't have spent the last 11 years in higher education. Stay in school kids!

And how many work "part-time' jobs because their employer purposefully cuts them off so that they don't have to pay any benefits? How many minumum wage workers have ANY health care coverage through work?

I had this happen to me when I was pimply-faced 16 year old working at Costco for the summer. The worker is well within their rights to find a different job. Is it the government's job to tell employers how much they have to work their employees?

Or looked at differently, 23% (1 out of 4!) of those working at minimum wage over the age of 24 are living below the poverty line. 55% don't even earn twice the level of the poverty line.

I agree that this is a shame but should we put all hourly wage earners and small businesses at risk to buoy up a small segment of the population? What about the economy as a whole? The costs will all be passed to the consumer.

I appreciate the dialog on this one small facet of Obama's economic platform.

[OAKS]

Or looked at differently, 23% (1 out of 4!) of those working at minimum wage over the age of 24 are living below the poverty line. 55% don't even earn twice the level of the poverty line.

I agree that this is a shame but should we put all hourly wage earners and small businesses at risk to buoy up a small segment of the population? What about the economy as a whole? The costs will all be passed to the consumer.

The economy as a whole will do just fine in my opinion. There are enough smart business owners out there to figure out ways to cope with rising wages. Can you name one service that doesn't exist anymore because of rising wages? I'm not baiting, but genuinely asking. Every low paying job lost I can think of has been replaced by automation rather than wages.

Also, that money is going to be going right back into the community. They won't be buying stocks or stuffing their mattresses with their extra dollar or two an hour. They'll be paying for things like food, health care, etc. In the long run there may be fewer welfare checks, food stamps, socialized health care costs etc. that will have to be paid out, which the fiscal conservative & small government part of me wants to see happen. Why not at least give it a chance and see if something positive comes of it? They could always suspend the minimum wage and let inflation grow ahead of it if it doesn't work out.

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

How many people that have a strong work ethic remain in the minimum wage category for very long? Anyone who works their tail off will earn more money and get raises. . .parlay that into a new job, better pay, better benefits and so on.

I know there are exceptions, like the divorced mother of 3 with a deadbeat Dad. . .but by and large, forcing minimum wage increases seems to reward those who don't work hard enough to force employers to pay them more or lose good employees.

Supply and demand. Good hard workers are hard to come by. If you work hard, you will be rewarded every time.

[Jac Coyne]

<nodding>

[Zeuslax]

Supply and demand. Good hard workers are hard to come by. If you work hard, you will be rewarded every time.

Ohh really? What about the 20 million illegal immigrants in the US? They are working their tails off and many won't ever see a raise! There isn't a bus boy or dish washer in Baltimore that wouldn't agree with me.

[Beta]

Supply and demand. Good hard workers are hard to come by. If you work hard, you will be rewarded every time.

Ohh really? What about the 20 million illegal immigrants in the US? They are working their tails off and many won't ever see a raise! There isn't a bus boy or dish washer in Baltimore that wouldn't agree with me.

See above.

[Zeuslax]

When it comes to greed, don't ever discount people and their motivation to find ways to suppress wages. There's about 1 million Chinese sowing soccer balls with their teeth for Nike.

Back on topic......... a little bit. As was widely reported after the last election (not so much). All most everyone in Western intelligence knew that Al Queda really wanted Bush to win. Remember the pre election videos and messages "supporting" John Kerry? I don't want to get into those reasons here. I'm wondering aloud about perception around the world in regards to this election. It's going to be interesting to see what kind of response this election gets overseas.

[Jac Coyne]

All most everyone in Western intelligence knew that Al Queda really wanted Bush to win. Remember the pre election videos and messages "supporting" John Kerry?

Damn Osama bin Laden and his diabolical band of reverse psychologists. They've duped us again! <waving fist in air>.

Will Barry Obama and the rest of his non-Muslim administration be able to outfox al Qaeda? Stay tuned!

These people declare holy wars over cartoons and strap bombs to themselves when you get their pizza order wrong. They don't have the theological capacity to formulate a nuanced approach to sway the American electorate, other than flying planes into buildings.

[StrykerFSU]

Supply and demand. Good hard workers are hard to come by. If you work hard, you will be rewarded every time.

Ohh really? What about the 20 million illegal immigrants in the US? They are working their tails off and many won't ever see a raise! There isn't a bus boy or dish washer in Baltimore that wouldn't agree with me.

Do illegals get minimum wage? What fraction of whatever they make do they pay tax on? I don't run a business or evil corporation but it's probably pretty tough to put an illegal on salary, they might be a little reluctant to hand over information for their W-2's. I think giving them drivers licenses is reward enough for entering the country illegally And yes, businesses need to be held responsible for hiring illegals...but we digress.

If we bump up min wage to $9.50, what do we do with other people's wages? Doesn't everyone's pay scale have to be increased as well? You can't have a manager only making a couple of bucks more than the fry cook

I also interpreted Bin Laden's pro-Kerry stance a little differently. I believe he recognized that Kerry and the Dems would be far less resolved in their fight against al-Qaeda and that is why he wanted them to win. I wonder what he'll say this time around. Obama did say he'd go into Pakistan without permission to find him so maybe Obama is actually scarier to bin Laden. Of course Osama may have bigger fish to fry since his minions are getting tanned all over Iraq and the international coalition in Afghanistan is strengthening.

[KnoxVegas]

They don't have the theological capacity to formulate a nuanced approach to sway the American electorate, other than flying planes into buildings.

And that seems to be working just fine. There was a time in this country when its citizens were told by the president "the only thing we have to fear is feat itself." But for the last 6+ years, the only thing we seem to have is fear itself. I wonder when we get beyond that fear and more forward as a country?

[StrykerFSU]

Another uncomfortable association has come to light to go along with Rev. Wright and Tony Rezko:

Barack Obama may have come up with a creative way to solve the housing recession: Let everyone buy property at a discount the way he did from Tony Rezko, and give everyone in America a discount mortgage the way Angelo Mozilo of Countrywide did for Fannie Mae's Jim Johnson. Team Obama's real estate and mortgage transactions are certainly a change from business as usual. They suggest old-fashioned back-scratching below even current Beltway standards.

A former CEO of mortgage financing giant Fannie Mae, Mr. Johnson is now vetting Vice Presidential candidates for Mr. Obama. But he is also a textbook case for poor disclosure as regulators sifted through the wreckage of Fannie's $10 billion accounting scandal. Despite an exhaustive federal inquiry, Mr. Johnson managed to avoid disclosing one very special perk: below-market interest-rate mortgages from Countrywide Financial, arranged by Countrywide CEO Angelo Mozilo.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121314375651462773.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks
And according to the WSJ, Johnson made $21 Million a year.

The issue was also written about on Slate.com today:

Barack Obama called out Countrywide by name on the campaign trail during the primaries. He particularly criticized the company's CEO for his excessive compensation and more generally "infecting the economy and helping to create a home foreclosure crisis," which he linked not only to the 2 million who lost their houses but to school districts that couldn't purchase supplies and pay teachers. This is the same CEO who gave Johnson his sweetheart deal. Obama's aides also criticized Clinton's then-campaign strategist, Mark Penn, for giving PR advice to the company.

Now the man Obama has entrusted with what he has called the most important decision of his campaign is wrapped up in Countrywide and tied to the CEO. There are lots of unanswered questions about the Johnson deal, though no evidence as yet that he did anything wrong. But the Obama standard isn't wrongdoing. It's mere connection to the company. By that standard, this is bad news.

Since Obama has just held a national seminar for 16 months on changing politics and shedding the old insider way of doing things, you might expect that he'd take these disclosures seriously, if for no other reason than to show that even when it might hurt him, he's committed to letting the light shine on his associates. Nope—his campaign has called the issue irrelevant. Double bad.

http://www.slate.com/id/2193292/

These men represent lapses in judgment by the candidate as well as good old fashioned cronyism. Obama's campaign will try to downplay these associations but wasn't he going to clean up Washington? Wasn't he the breath of fresh air? Weren't we supposed to look at his inexperience as a good thing because he wasn't going to owe anyone any favors?

[KnoxVegas]

You cannot have it both ways.

Meet former Senator Phill Gramm

Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain's national campaign general co-chair was being paid by a Swiss bank to lobby Congress about the U.S. mortgage crisis at the same time he was advising McCain about his economic policy, federal records show.

Gramm joined the bank in 2002 and had registered as a lobbyist by 2004. UBS filed paperwork deregistering Gramm on April 18 of this year. Gramm continues to serve as a UBS vice chairman.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/27/phil-gramm-mccain-co-chai_n_103801.html

Johnson just stepped down from his unpaid position advising Obama. Our latest national nightmare is now over.

From NBC's Domenico Montanaro
Jim Johnson, who had been leading Obama's VP search committee, has stepped down from the campaign. Our latest national nightmare is over.

"Jim did not want to distract in any way from the very important task of gathering information about my vice presidential nominee, so he has made a decision to step aside that I accept," Obama said in a statement. "We have a very good selection process underway, and I am confident that it will produce a number of highly qualified candidates for me to choose from in the weeks ahead. I remain grateful to Jim for his service and his efforts in this process."

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/11/1132281.aspx

Can we now get back to the important issues of this campaign, please? You know jihadist fist bumps and scarves, lapel pins and crazy preachers?

[StrykerFSU]

Ah, but I thought Sen. Obama wasn't going to be this way. Change...yes, we can and all that business. The problem with painting yourself as being above the fray is that you better actually be worthy of the high rhetoric. Sen. Obama can't use lobbyist like it's a dirty word and then have problems like these.

Not to delve too deeply into the nuances of the respective cases but at the very least it could be pointed out that Gramm's association with UBS was disclosed properly and he did not receive preferential treatment from a company that has been lambasted by the candidate as "infecting the economy and helping to create a home foreclosure crisis,". None of these things can be said of Johnson.

The very fact that we engage in this tit for tat shows that Obama's message of change yada yada yada, fresh face etc. is really just a load of hot air. He's a politician like all of the others, just with less experience. You can dismiss these issues with throwaway lines like "our long national nightmare is over" but the fact is that many voters put a lot of value in a candidate's judgment and associations with people like Tony Rezko, Rev. Wright, and Jim Johnson say a lot about judgment.

[KnoxVegas]

The very fact that we engage in this tit for tat shows that Obama's message of change yada yada yada, fresh face etc. is really just a load of hot air. He's a politician like all of the others, just with less experience.

Using that logic, how did Bush win in 2000? Gore had much more experience being a politician than Bush did.

So what this all comes down to is that McCain is the better candidate in your opinion because all things being equal Obama and McCain are the same, since they are both politicians? That McCain is full of hot air but since he has more practice at it, he is the better candidate?