PNCLL D2 2009

[Mark Brown]

Some thoughts to get things in motion before the League meeting in Sept.
1: OOC games, or lack there of , made our conference look weaker than it was....let's make it mandatory that every team plays 2 OOC games to be in our League.
2: The above is very hard to do if we play each team in the regular season. Let's go back to a split system and not require 9 league games. This would allow the $$ to play other teams. We can play the other teams in our league in the playoffs if we are good enough to get there.
3: We must force teams to meet the general MCLA rules. One that is commonly broken in our league is that of having a Coach. If a team can't make this req., or others, they should not be in our League.
We could accomplish #1 via #2 and holding a PNCLL vs. RMLC, WCLL, or both each year in a home-and-home format. We could send 5 teams to RMLC territory and 5 to WCLL one year w/ the expectation that they come to us the following year. It'd be a lot easier to get teams to come to us if we went to them first as a collective whole.
Just some thoughts. We all want this to be the strongest D2 league in the MCLA but we must take the steps to make it happen. I believe these will put us on the right path.

[42]

Great idea getting the conversation publicly started. In the past, the few times I have gone, the greatest debates at the meeting usually revolve around the transparency of the board and lack of communicating in the off season. Not directly, but most of the issues effect each team differently. Without some idea about the boards motivations, the endless debates will continue.

Mark, I love your first two points. The scheduling this last year made it hard for teams to schedule OOC games. Due to both economic and time restraints. This will inevitably bring the conversation to the D2 divide, always a long debate come fall.

I'm curious about your third point. I like the idea of mandating MCLA rules, however in a given year it can be hard for a team to get a coach that meets those specification and travel to all the games. How would we get around a short term transition without a full league alienation the next year? Maybe having a non-student/player Head Coach a mandate for entering the PNCLL tournament and having consecutive years of the same offense lead to harsher penalties?

[woulax23]

I believe that the talk last year was that for the 2009 season there would be scheduling blocks of weekends announced in advance so that teams would know the weekends you would need to leave open for PNCLL games, allowing teams to fill other weekends with OOC. You would not know who you were playing, but at least the dates would be firm. I am wondering if those will be released this summer so teams can get OOC's before the AGM and then it's just a matter of plugging teams into the PNCLL designated weekends. I realize this would be a large task for the EB and it would be great to hear either way from them if this is happening. That way I know whether to wait to schedule OOC games until the list of open weekends or if our team can go ahead now to start arranging games. I personally won't be upset if this is not an option for the 2009 season, as I am sure the entire EB is busy, but it would just be nice to know either way.

As for a required 2 OOC minimum to be a team.... I am not too sure. I can certainly look at the teams in the PNCLL DII at this present moment and see all of us being able to make this kind of a commitment, because I think there are all very strong squads right now and the PNCLL DII is going to be good for the next three years. Afterall, as Will has so nicely put it recently "if Willamette can do it, everyone can do it." (a slogan that I think will become increasingly rare as they continue to get stronger thanks to his leadership).

The only exception I can see is with CofI. They had a down-ish year this year and they weren't able to make their OOC commitment to Montana State, which is closer for them than for any other team in the DII is to an OOC opponent. Now I am not downing on them because they were not in the position to do OOC's this year, rather I was extremely impressed with the amount of heart and dedication that their team displayed this year. Despite a roster of eleven with a face-off specialist in cage, they still made the trip out to Oregon for their double-header weekend against us and Willamette. This shows that they are committed to the PNCLL because they were in the same situation as L&C and Linfield in the past two seasons. They were in a situation where they could have rolled over and quit the league themselves, however they stayed with it and played the season out.

Should a team like theirs, who is experiencing a down season or two be penalized from the conference because they can only make it to in-conference games? I feel like that would be unfair to teams who may not be in the position to play OOC. After all joining the PNCLL is making a commitment to play the conference schedule given to a team by the PNCLL. I feel like OOC's should still be a strongly encouraged option for teams since they do make us stronger, however we have to remember that there will always be a couple of teams who have down years. I would encourage every team in the PNCLL DII to think about the possibility of losing your team because two years down the road you are capable of making the commitment to your PNCLL schedule, but can't get 2 OOC games in. In all reality if a team is in that kind of a situation they won't be able to attract OOC competition and the only other alternative is to travel. It is like penalizing a team twice for having an off year. This is just one opinion though.

[Mark Brown]

Josh, That was the point of not having to play 9 league games. If everyone played 4-5 league games then it would be easier to play OOC games. Look at every other League in the MCLA with the exception of us and the UMLL. The max required league games is 6 w/ most having 4-5.
As for following MCLA rules such as having a coach, the PNCLL is a member of the MCLA and is supposed to follow their rules. I understand things happen that make this hard at times, the Dean at Whitman two seasons ago, and I'm not for punishing a team in such circumstances. Of course a coach may not be able to make all games but there should be someone to fill in for them. The point is to follow the rules barring such instances. This is what is required to be an MCLA team. It's hard to shake the "it's just a club sport" mentality if a team doesn't even have a coach.

[TheBearcatHimself]

Point 1 - OOC Games: Dead on it made us VERY WEAK looking that only 4 schools played OOC games. Think about this: only ONE team at the final four played OOC games!!!! That is unreal. What are we, isolationists?

Unfortunately a mandate may not be feasible as Josh said. However, I am in for discussion on multi-team and multi-conference tourneys!

Point 2 - Split Divisions: YES!! This was in place and then everyone went monkey crazy at the meeting and forgot we planned this out in advance. Let's get this figured out and not throw poo all over the walls this September like we did last year. I know for a FACT that a major contributing factor to the demise of Lewis and Clark was the increase in referee fees for the extra games they had to play. They had to use all their money there and had little left for even in-league travel. (Obviously poor budgeting by individual teams is not a league responsibility, but it should be a concern if more games=more money for refs=less money for everything else.)

Point 3 - MCLA Guidelines/Coaches: This is very important for our image and respectability, this coming from a former perpetrator. If teams do not follow this rule sanctions should be made, e.g. post-season ineligibility.

Not sure if there are any other commonly broken rules, but we should attempt to follow them all obviously.

[woulax23]

I wasn't trying to shut down the idea of us doing a split, in fact I don't see a problem with doing that because teams can always schedule their favorite rivalry outside of their given conference schedule. I know that if we were separated from SOU we would go out of our way to schedule you guys every season. I was simply saying that either way, with a split or an eight game conference schedule, it would be beneficial if we could eventually do the blocking out of certain weekends before the AGM. I find that there is so much less I need to worry about now that I'm retired.

[PokePokeSLAP]

as far as demanding a teams coach be a non-student (everybody already adheres to the non-player coaching rule) think twice, this has no bearing on a team's legitimacy. lets look over the past few years, um and wwu have been student/injured team member coached since 2005 and have perennially squashed teams with "established" third-party, if you will, coaches. it is often hard to find a reputable coach who will volunteer, let alone pay him extra out of team dues. if a program is well enough established, a student or non-suited player can easily step in an guide a team to the playoffs and beyond.........

[Mark Brown]

The rule according to our league website is for each team to have an adult, non-player, non-rostered coach at every game so a current student can meet this criteria.

[PokePokeSLAP]

i know the rule, and i cant remember a team breaking that rule as you insinuated earlier. i thought you were lobbying an "adults" only policy for coaching. if need be, i've seen teams elect a perfectly healthy, integral player to sit out a year to coach. sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. if i misunderstood your previous intention, my bad.

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

Point 1 - OOC Games: Dead on it made us VERY WEAK looking that only 4 schools played OOC games. Think about this: [b]only ONE team at the final four played OOC games!!!!

Not true. WOU and WWU both played OOC games in 2008

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

i know the rule, and i cant remember a team breaking that rule as you insinuated earlier. i thought you were lobbying an "adults" only policy for coaching. if need be, i've seen teams elect a perfectly healthy, integral player to sit out a year to coach. sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. if i misunderstood your previous intention, my bad.

Like Jesse Savage in '07 or Kevin Flynn in '06. . .or the WWU coaches in 2008. . .we have no problem with a player stepping off of the field and into the coaches box - so long as it is for the entire season and that player is NOT on the roster.

[TheBearcatHimself]

Point 1 - OOC Games: Dead on it made us VERY WEAK looking that only 4 schools played OOC games. Think about this: [b]only ONE team at the final four played OOC games!!!!

Not true. WOU and WWU both played OOC games in 2008

My apologies, my memory was that the Montana State game had been canceled, however it was indeed played. They still only played 1 OOC game and I believe the requirement is 2 for an at-large bid to nationals. And it doesn't change the fact that out of 6 playoff teams, only three played OOC games, and only 2 in the final four played OOC games.

The point is the same: no OOC games sets a dangerous precedent.

[TheBearcatHimself]

i know the rule, and i cant remember a team breaking that rule as you insinuated earlier. i thought you were lobbying an "adults" only policy for coaching. if need be, i've seen teams elect a perfectly healthy, integral player to sit out a year to coach. sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. if i misunderstood your previous intention, my bad.

I'm not going to name names, but teams have broken this rule consistently, and in 2007 alone I can think of 3 teams that did not have an adult coach, and two who had rostered-player coaches in D2. Just think about it and you'll know who.

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

If we are discussing two divisions. . .I guess we should discuss what that divide might look like. . .

WWU
PLU
UPS
CWU
Whitman
C of I
Willamette
WOU
SOU

There is no easy way to split 9 teams. You could go with 3 groups of 3, and have each team play their own group and one other for 5 games - that would be the easiest split but a 3-team group seems silly. You could play each team in your group twice for 4 games. Not sure about that idea, although it provides the best geographical splits.

WWU, PLU and UPS
CWU, Whit & CofI
Will, SOU and WOU


How would you split these 9 teams into two divisions? And then how do you structure league games? It seems like a bit of a mess.

[nhoskins]

If Portland State, a D2 school, is admitted to the PNCLL then there will be 10 teams and that makes for two 5 team divisions. Each will play 4 divisional games (2 weekends, with travel partners).

North/South Divisions seem to work better than East/West. They would be:

North: Western, PLU, UPS, CWU, Whitman
South: SOU, WOU, Willamette, C of I, Portland State*