PCLL 2008 Championships - predict, report, discuss

[Tim Gray]

Last post deleted. Please keep talk in this thread to Championship Talk.

[Bill from Boston]

Why would Framingham even play in the PCLL tourney? Why even play the regular season games? If only one team can afford to go to the national tourney, what is the point of having a Divsion B? or Division 2 sorry. Teams should be required to go if they win, and if they can't, they should be kicked out of the league. Then, you either have 2 divisions with well-organized teams, or you just have 1. No offense to anyone on the e board, but this doesn't look good at all, even WITH a representative. It was hardly earned. The team representing the PCLL lost 17-4 to a team that didn't even make the league playoffs

Just to touch on this, I am not all that familiar with the D2 scene but as far as earning it, it looks like Framingham State had the best record in the conference and the best record overall. This AQ seemed like the best way to iron things out rather than not send a representative, and sending a team ensures that Division 2 will stay intact. Otherwise if D2 is dissolved and teams that can't afford are kicked out, you end up with a Divison 1 that would lack the parity which made it so exciting this year, and consist of 3 or 4 games a year that the top teams don't want to play because of such a wide disparity in talent, hence the reason teams are relegated to Division 2 in the first place.

[LockDownD]

Why would Framingham even play in the PCLL tourney? Why even play the regular season games? If only one team can afford to go to the national tourney, what is the point of having a Divsion B? or Division 2 sorry. Teams should be required to go if they win, and if they can't, they should be kicked out of the league. Then, you either have 2 divisions with well-organized teams, or you just have 1. No offense to anyone on the e board, but this doesn't look good at all, even WITH a representative. It was hardly earned. The team representing the PCLL lost 17-4 to a team that didn't even make the league playoffs

Just to touch on this, I am not all that familiar with the D2 scene but as far as earning it, it looks like Framingham State had the best record in the conference and the best record overall. This AQ seemed like the best way to iron things out rather than not send a representative, and sending a team ensures that Division 2 will stay intact. Otherwise if D2 is dissolved and teams that can't afford are kicked out, you end up with a Division 1 that would lack the parity which made it so exciting this year, and consist of 3 or 4 games a year that the top teams don't want to play because of such a wide disparity in talent, hence the reason teams are relegated to Division 2 in the first place.

Well said.

[Ben Clark]

Why would Framingham even play in the PCLL tourney? Why even play the regular season games? If only one team can afford to go to the national tourney, what is the point of having a Divsion B? or Division 2 sorry. Teams should be required to go if they win, and if they can't, they should be kicked out of the league. Then, you either have 2 divisions with well-organized teams, or you just have 1. No offense to anyone on the e board, but this doesn't look good at all, even WITH a representative. It was hardly earned. The team representing the PCLL lost 17-4 to a team that didn't even make the league playoffs

Just to touch on this, I am not all that familiar with the D2 scene but as far as earning it, it looks like Framingham State had the best record in the conference and the best record overall. This AQ seemed like the best way to iron things out rather than not send a representative, and sending a team ensures that Division 2 will stay intact. Otherwise if D2 is dissolved and teams that can't afford are kicked out, you end up with a Division 1 that would lack the parity which made it so exciting this year, and consist of 3 or 4 games a year that the top teams don't want to play because of such a wide disparity in talent, hence the reason teams are relegated to Division 2 in the first place.

Well said.

Well said, except for the relegated part. The PCLL has never forced a team to play in one division or the other.

[SCLAX]

I support the EB's decision in light of the circumstances. Obviously it would be ideal if the tournament decided our Div B representative but without a firm commitment from the majority of the B teams the PCLL should not risk losing its AQ... again. It's far more embarrassing not to send a team than it is to send the regular season champion without considering the results of the tournament.
I also agree that every team in the league should be required to go to nationals if they win their division or face possible expulsion. This is something that should (and I'm fairly certain it will) be discussed at the spring/fall league meetings. I think Tim and the rest of the EB did a great job trying to get commitments from all the B teams but unfortunately they were forced to make a tough decision... and I think they made the right one.

[More Cowbell]

Anything on the first round games yet?

[HPterrier14]

Northeastern was up on URI 13-9 late in the 4th when I left.

[B2]

13-9 final. Nu

[LockDownD]

Does anyone know the score of UCONN vs. New Hampshire? Just want to get this playoff picture situated.

[Tim Gray]

UNH won 14-5.

Tomorrow's match ups updated above with times.

[Chowdah Head]

For what it's worth, I figured I'd give my own breakdown of the teams and players to watch just to see if everyone is thinking the same way I am.

# 1 Boston College - Still the clear-cut favorite in the PCLL. Have 3 of the top close defensemen in the league, playing in front of a stellar goaltender in T.R. Hoffman. Austin Gardner-Smith is one of the most dangerous attackmen in the conference, with a solid group of attack and midfielders around him.

# 2 Boston University - Come in to the playoffs after winning 7 straight. Very strong defense led by outstanding close defenseman Jon Yale-Loehr and goalie Russ porter. Very strong at the midfield position with 2 lines of all viable scoring threats, and a talented freshman class.

#3 New Hampshire - Comes into this game after an impressive one-sided victory over UConn. Johnny McNamara is arguably the best goaltender in the PCLL, and Ian Osgood is an LSM with the stick skills of an attackman. Eric Klotz and Michael Violandi lead a very potent attack trio.

# 4 Northeastern - Will be gunning for BC after that close OT loss on Sunday. Strong all around, led on the offensive end by 3 of the top 4 goalscorers in the conference with attackmen Jason Knerr and Michael Adamson, and midfielder Josh Meunier. LSM Griffin Knowlton is the player to watch on the defensive side.


Just figured I'd try to generate some chatter for the games tomorrow. Should be some good ones.

[TheBirdman23]

Why would Framingham even play in the PCLL tourney? Why even play the regular season games? If only one team can afford to go to the national tourney, what is the point of having a Divsion B? or Division 2 sorry. Teams should be required to go if they win, and if they can't, they should be kicked out of the league. Then, you either have 2 divisions with well-organized teams, or you just have 1. No offense to anyone on the e board, but this doesn't look good at all, even WITH a representative. It was hardly earned. The team representing the PCLL lost 17-4 to a team that didn't even make the league playoffs

Just to touch on this, I am not all that familiar with the D2 scene but as far as earning it, it looks like Framingham State had the best record in the conference and the best record overall. This AQ seemed like the best way to iron things out rather than not send a representative, and sending a team ensures that Division 2 will stay intact. Otherwise if D2 is dissolved and teams that can't afford are kicked out, you end up with a Division 1 that would lack the parity which made it so exciting this year, and consist of 3 or 4 games a year that the top teams don't want to play because of such a wide disparity in talent, hence the reason teams are relegated to Division 2 in the first place.

Well said.

Well said, except for the relegated part. The PCLL has never forced a team to play in one division or the other.

First let me say I definitely understand all of the above arguments. HOWEVER, punishing a CLUB lacrosse team for not being able to come up with $15,000+ in addition to all the fees and expenses of the regular season seems pretty unfair. I don't know how it is in division one, but in D2 the schools give very little if any school funding. I understand the argument that you should be fundraising and trying to get donations all year just in case you are the team to go to nationals but even if you did try all year, getting that money is still no easy task. In addition to that, at most of our D2 schools there are no alumni to seek donations from because most are teams just trying to get a program going.

As far as having no playoffs, just having the first ranked team go, I have to disagree. The bottom line is that playoffs are still playoffs. I don't have to explain to everyone the dynamics of playoffs in any sport but that is when you find out what teams are really on top as you know all teams are playing at their best. And it goes along with the monetary argument that these ARE the championship tournaments for the teams that don't have the funding to go to Texas. As far as I'm concerned the winner of the playoffs is the champion of the division both in D1 and D2. But i do understand why you need to pick a team before if need be to go to nationals for the sake of our league.

So in conclusion I feel you have to remember we are playing club lacrosse here which means no school funding and that the guys just want to play lacrosse. I feel to kick a team out of a league for lack of money to go on a trip to Texas (about as far as you can get from New England by the way) is kind of defeating the purpose of the fun of playing competetive but fun club lacrosse.

[Dan Warren]

very good points. I think I got a little carried away. As a coach, I know how hard it is to get kids to fundraise, and even then, $12.000 is a lot of work. The EB made the best decision they could.

Let's respect the moderator now and keep this talk to the actual Championship Weekend games.

[Ben Clark]

Why would Framingham even play in the PCLL tourney? Why even play the regular season games? If only one team can afford to go to the national tourney, what is the point of having a Divsion B? or Division 2 sorry. Teams should be required to go if they win, and if they can't, they should be kicked out of the league. Then, you either have 2 divisions with well-organized teams, or you just have 1. No offense to anyone on the e board, but this doesn't look good at all, even WITH a representative. It was hardly earned. The team representing the PCLL lost 17-4 to a team that didn't even make the league playoffs

Just to touch on this, I am not all that familiar with the D2 scene but as far as earning it, it looks like Framingham State had the best record in the conference and the best record overall. This AQ seemed like the best way to iron things out rather than not send a representative, and sending a team ensures that Division 2 will stay intact. Otherwise if D2 is dissolved and teams that can't afford are kicked out, you end up with a Division 1 that would lack the parity which made it so exciting this year, and consist of 3 or 4 games a year that the top teams don't want to play because of such a wide disparity in talent, hence the reason teams are relegated to Division 2 in the first place.

Well said.

Well said, except for the relegated part. The PCLL has never forced a team to play in one division or the other.

First let me say I definitely understand all of the above arguments. HOWEVER, punishing a CLUB lacrosse team for not being able to come up with $15,000+ in addition to all the fees and expenses of the regular season seems pretty unfair. I don't know how it is in division one, but in D2 the schools give very little if any school funding. I understand the argument that you should be fundraising and trying to get donations all year just in case you are the team to go to nationals but even if you did try all year, getting that money is still no easy task. In addition to that, at most of our D2 schools there are no alumni to seek donations from because most are teams that are just trying to get a program going.

So in conclusion I feel you have to remember we are playing club lacrosse here which means no school funding and that the guys just want to play lacrosse. I feel to kick a team out of a league for lack of money to go on a trip to Texas (about as far as you can get from New England by the way) is kind of defeating the purpose of the fun of playing competetive but fun club lacrosse.

It doesn't matter how unfair you think it is that a team has to pay their way to Texas. As a team in the MCLA, there are certain responsibilities. One of them is representing your conference in Dallas if you win your conference tournament.

Do you know how much time and money is spent setting up and running the tournament in Dallas? Can you imagine what it would be like if teams were allowed to just decide willy-nilly if they were going to attend?

And if you think D1 teams are treated any differently by their schools than D2 teams, you're kidding yourself.

edit: I agree with Dan - back on topic.

[Beta]

This AQ seemed like the best way to iron things out rather than not send a representative, and sending a team ensures that Division 2 will stay intact. Otherwise if D2 is dissolved and teams that can't afford are kicked out, you end up with a Divison 1 that would lack the parity which made it so exciting this year, and consist of 3 or 4 games a year that the top teams don't want to play because of such a wide disparity in talent, hence the reason teams are relegated to Division 2 in the first place.

Whoa whoa whoa...lemme get this straight. So the PCLL "voted" their championship team into the national playoffs? This is a joke right? Funny funny ha ha?

Why didn't they have a tourney like the other conferences? Too bad other conferences don't do that...because I mean...#2 seeds or higher never win their conference playoffs!!! That would be just a little too far-fetched for me!

If they sent a team because they were the most likely to be able to afford it...then there's seriously something wrong here.

First let me say I definitely understand all of the above arguments. HOWEVER, punishing a CLUB lacrosse team for not being able to come up with $15,000+ in addition to all the fees and expenses of the regular season seems pretty unfair. I don't know how it is in division one, but in D2 the schools give very little if any school funding. I understand the argument that you should be fundraising and trying to get donations all year just in case you are the team to go to nationals but even if you did try all year, getting that money is still no easy task. In addition to that, at most of our D2 schools there are no alumni to seek donations from because most are teams that are just trying to get a program going.

So in conclusion I feel you have to remember we are playing club lacrosse here which means no school funding and that the guys just want to play lacrosse. I feel to kick a team out of a league for lack of money to go on a trip to Texas (about as far as you can get from New England by the way) is kind of defeating the purpose of the fun of playing competetive but fun club lacrosse.

If you can't afford the meal...don't walk into the restaurant and order a steak. Go to the fast food NCLL Diner right down the street.