2008 Lax World MCLA Division 2 Top 25 Poll (4/30/08) is out!

[Kyle Berggren]

There are lots of arguments to be made for & against it... The most compelling to me is that each team plays the same amount of MCLA dues, but D2 is not represented in the same numbers.

Personally, from years past, I've liked it at 12. There was never has been as much parity as this season so I"d expect more talk of it over the next few years.

[Pinball]

There are lots of arguments to be made for & against it... The most compelling to me is that each team plays the same amount of MCLA dues, but D2 is not represented in the same numbers.

There was never has been as much parity as this season so I"d expect more talk of it over the next few years.

Just a fun fact but at Nationals during the Semi's D1 got locker rooms, D2 teams just looked at like we were crazy when we asked for the same treatment.

The tournament should stay at 12 teams until the field proves that we need more teams in the tournament to make it a legitimate championship. I have participated in every D2 tourney and every year there has been a large gap between the top teams and the bottom teams (at the tourney), when that gap no longer exist, then the tournament should be expanded.

[TheRev34]

There are lots of arguments to be made for & against it... The most compelling to me is that each team plays the same amount of MCLA dues, but D2 is not represented in the same numbers.

There was never has been as much parity as this season so I"d expect more talk of it over the next few years.

Just a fun fact but at Nationals during the Semi's D1 got locker rooms, D2 teams just looked at like we were crazy when we asked for the same treatment.

The tournament should stay at 12 teams until the field proves that we need more teams in the tournament to make it a legitimate championship. I have participated in every D2 tourney and every year there has been a large gap between the top teams and the bottom teams (at the tourney), when that gap no longer exist, then the tournament should be expanded.

of course the gap is going to exist when the bottom teams at the tourney are AQ's from weak conferences. Expanding the tourney would send four more teams ranked in the top 15 and would increase the level of competition

[Pinball]

There are lots of arguments to be made for & against it... The most compelling to me is that each team plays the same amount of MCLA dues, but D2 is not represented in the same numbers.

There was never has been as much parity as this season so I"d expect more talk of it over the next few years.

Just a fun fact but at Nationals during the Semi's D1 got locker rooms, D2 teams just looked at like we were crazy when we asked for the same treatment.

The tournament should stay at 12 teams until the field proves that we need more teams in the tournament to make it a legitimate championship. I have participated in every D2 tourney and every year there has been a large gap between the top teams and the bottom teams (at the tourney), when that gap no longer exist, then the tournament should be expanded.

of course the gap is going to exist when the bottom teams at the tourney are AQ's from weak conferences. Expanding the tourney would send four more teams ranked in the top 15 and would increase the level of competition

Actually no, the bottom AL bids were also in that category.

[TheBearcatHimself]

I think you can make an argument that all the bubble teams deserve a shot, Fort Lewis, Emory, Elon, SCAD, Montana State, Puget Sound, Charlotte, Northern Colorado, UVSC, those are some big names and only one or two of those I mentioned will be going.

Why stop there. Maybe we should invite every single Division 2 in the country to nationals?

Where is my Fruit roll-up, Juice Box, and my certificate of completion?

Well, if you look at what I wrote, I just listed teams in the top 15, which is where the extra 4 at-larges would come from. I hardly think sending a team ranked #10 in the NATION would be giving a certificate of completion. Thanks for the respect though for my respectfully worded question.

I agree that as of this season, D2 teams have not established that they can consistently put up the money and organization to deserve 16 bids. But if these programs continue to compete at such a high level, doesn't it deserve to be discussed expanding to 16?? It's looking like a team that finishes ranked 6th or 7th will NOT be going to Nationals this year due to the rankings of likely AQ's from weaker conferences. Suck on that juice box....

[MF]

If you are going to complain about teams not belonging in the top 10...who would you have in there instead? Dont just whine, share your solution..... Who DESERVES to be ahead of FLC?

I definitely thought that Montana St. would have been ahead of FLC. I guess the game tomorrow will prove or disprove that.

[Gvlax]

this is going to be one exciting weekend that is a guarantee.

[norway]

I don't think expanding to a 16 team tourney should even be discussed right now. Most of your D2 teams that are in the top 25 are playing the league minimum for their OOC games (2). Check the RMLCs schedules. They have 7 teams ranked in the top 25, yet only one of them scheduled more than the league minimum, and that team actually scheduled top tier teams. (i'm referring to UNC...props to them for knowing how to schedule). So, don't come on here making claims that one conference is better than another. Especially, if the top tier teams in your conference schedule 2 OOC games against another conference's middle to low tier teams. Until D2 teams start scheduling more than 2 (I'm thinking at least 4) OOC games against top tier teams, then don't come on here claiming that the tourney should be 16 teams either. We have a responsibility to prove that D2 deserves 16 teams, and you have to schedule appropriately to make this statement to the board. You cannot just expect the league to be taken seriously just because some teams appear to be more competitive this year.

[IndianaJones]

I don't think expanding to a 16 team tourney should even be discussed right now. Most of your D2 teams that are in the top 25 are playing the league minimum for their OOC games (2). Check the RMLCs schedules. They have 7 teams ranked in the top 25, yet only one of them scheduled more than the league minimum, and that team actually scheduled top tier teams. (i'm referring to UNC...props to them for knowing how to schedule). So, don't come on here making claims that one conference is better than another. Especially, if the top tier teams in your conference schedule 2 OOC games against another conference's middle to low tier teams. Until D2 teams start scheduling more than 2 (I'm thinking at least 4) OOC games against top tier teams, then don't come on here claiming that the tourney should be 16 teams either. We have a responsibility to prove that D2 deserves 16 teams, and you have to schedule appropriately to make this statement to the board. You cannot just expect the league to be taken seriously just because some teams appear to be more competitive this year.

exactly. Give that man a Hi-C Juice Box! Well said.

[NinerCoach]

Just a quick point...


Why on earth does ELON keep getting referred to as a "bubble team"????


They're IN. They WON the SELC tourney.

[NinerCoach]

Until D2 teams start scheduling more than 2 (I'm thinking at least 4) OOC games against top tier teams, then don't come on here claiming that the tourney should be 16 teams either. We have a responsibility to prove that D2 deserves 16 teams, and you have to schedule appropriately to make this statement to the board.

I know there is an unending debate about D1/D2 and how the difference isn't about quality it's about size.... EFF that.

UNC Charlotte (the school) isn't giving us any money outside of the amount we get to pay SELC/MCLA dues. Air Travel is pretty much impossible for us financially. We're limited to bus trips and one night in a not so nice hotel for our longest road trips.

At Charlotte we're pretty much smack dab in the middle of the SELC in terms of geography. North and we hit fellow SELC schools SVU and Liberty and then... nothingness in terms of the MCLA (though plenty of NCAA DII/DIII squads.) East and we get Coastal Carolina and then the ocean. South we get a ton of SELC schools and then the ocean. West? We hit the Tennessee schools of the SELC and Alabama before hitting a limit in terms of travel distance.

The League (SELC) is so large geographically that it limits our options out of conference. I think we easily have the best conference (looking at the top 5-6 teams) and we are forced to play major contenders year in and year out. However the draw back is that they don't count as OOC.

We'd have to increase dues by at least 300% to afford air travel (the only realistic way to get to an OOC game without my guys missing a ton of classes, which are still the priority right?) THAT would decimate my roster, we'd be back to a team with 13 guys and then it would be irrelevant to have enough OOC games since we wouldn't be a quality team anymore.

This year we got two teams to come to us, St. Thomas (at a neutral site in Atlanta, so we traveled as well) and Baylor. But oh wait, because we played against an OOC team that happens to be D1 instead of D2, it doesn't count. (Someone explain the rationale behind that please?)

And now you’re trying to tell me that I’m doing a poor job scheduling if I don’t have 4 games against D2 OOC contenders? That’s just insane to think we’d be able to afford that.

[Beta]

Ecto Cooler!!!

Memories...

[Gvlax]

Until D2 teams start scheduling more than 2 (I'm thinking at least 4) OOC games against top tier teams, then don't come on here claiming that the tourney should be 16 teams either. We have a responsibility to prove that D2 deserves 16 teams, and you have to schedule appropriately to make this statement to the board.

I know there is an unending debate about D1/D2 and how the difference isn't about quality it's about size.... EFF that.

UNC Charlotte (the school) isn't giving us any money outside of the amount we get to pay SELC/MCLA dues. Air Travel is pretty much impossible for us financially. We're limited to bus trips and one night in a not so nice hotel for our longest road trips.

At Charlotte we're pretty much smack dab in the middle of the SELC in terms of geography. North and we hit fellow SELC schools SVU and Liberty and then... nothingness in terms of the MCLA (though plenty of NCAA DII/DIII squads.) East and we get Coastal Carolina and then the ocean. South we get a ton of SELC schools and then the ocean. West? We hit the Tennessee schools of the SELC and Alabama before hitting a limit in terms of travel distance.

The League (SELC) is so large geographically that it limits our options out of conference. I think we easily have the best conference (looking at the top 5-6 teams) and we are forced to play major contenders year in and year out. However the draw back is that they don't count as OOC.

We'd have to increase dues by at least 300% to afford air travel (the only realistic way to get to an OOC game without my guys missing a ton of classes, which are still the priority right?) THAT would decimate my roster, we'd be back to a team with 13 guys and then it would be irrelevant to have enough OOC games since we wouldn't be a quality team anymore.

This year we got two teams to come to us, St. Thomas (at a neutral site in Atlanta, so we traveled as well) and Baylor. But oh wait, because we played against an OOC team that happens to be D1 instead of D2, it doesn't count. (Someone explain the rationale behind that please?)

And now you’re trying to tell me that I’m doing a poor job scheduling if I don’t have 4 games against D2 OOC contenders? That’s just insane to think we’d be able to afford that.

You think you are the only ones in the whole D2 division, even MCLA in general that has problems rasing money for OOC? We are in the same situation you are in, School gives us MCLA/CCLA dues and that it. If we raise dues we lose players. But guess what, the players that actually want to make to it to nationals will pay what they have to. Yes we are closer to OOC games but we still have to fork over a pretty penny for charter buses and then on top of that we had to organize our time wisely (4 games in 2 days).


And for your rant about OOC games having to be D2.... DUHHHH OOC games are supposed to prove to the voters and the MCLA how you compare OUTSIDE of your conference in YOUR division. Us playing Minnesota Duluth for example would prove nothing to how good we are in D2.

Try this out, raise money for a trip to the closest place that will host OOC games. Teams are usually pretty nice at hosting teams if it meant they get to play you and the other teams as well. Also plan for a big trip every few years and start planning and raising money the year you are not traveling.

Many north teams would love to come to the south during winter for games so make your campus look appealing. Since you are in the top 25 it will make your choice of OOC teams coming to play you even better.


Everyone is/was in the situation but the teams that want to be taken seriously look for solutions rather than complaining.

[Gvlax]

another thing, make good with a team that is usually in the top 25 and make an agreement that if you come to them this year they will come to you next year. Home and home. Easiest way to guarantee quality OOC games. GVSU is doing this by hosting a February tournament in our new indoor full field that our school just built.

[NinerCoach]

You think you are the only ones in the whole D2 division, even MCLA in general that has problems rasing money for OOC?

Not at all.

I was purely upset by the comment that 2 OOC games still isn't enough and that we should have to get 4 before our schedule's are legitimate enough to allow any room for a discussion of expanding the National Tourney field to 16.

I do partially understand the issues with playing D1 teams, but I still think that it's a little silly to have the opinion that a game against a D1 team doesn't help to expose how good a D2 team is. I honestly don't have a complaint about that in general, just that it wasn't made clearer to us prior to the season.