MCLA.us Game Stats...should they be monitored?

[seulax10]

Is there any incentive for teams to upload their game and player stats to MCLA.us after every game? When I browse around, I've noticed some teams (usually those with losing records...might be a correlation there) have not posted shots, goals, etc. since week one.

[Madlax16]

I dont think it really matters. Other than posting goals and assists its pretty useless. This being because the stats on the MCLA site are not really realiable(with a few exceptions of course). A lot of teams have some stats that seem to be a little far fetched, like for instance, some goalies having an average of 20+ goals a game that are no way that high of a calibur goalie. This could be because some stats people on the team may count every shot that leaves a stick a save by the goalie, when in reality it is not. I for one know that our stats on the site are not accurate. Some people dont have all their goals listed, or assists documented, and with the entry set up, once the data is entered it cant be fixed later on if a flaw is noticed.(or thats atleast what im told) Its just hard to get reliable stats in this league. Thus really eliminating the neccesity to post any stats, cuz many people dont even put much clout in them anyway.

[benji]

I think that overall, you can really only use the stats to mark trends with certain teams and players. While a goalie may show to have a ridiculous number of saves in a single game, we really can only look on their overall play. At that, we should really look at statistics that way to begin with.

As far as incentive goes, the only real incentive is when it comes down to pre-season polling and all-conference awards. Lots of times, teams won't get to see certain teams play, even teams within their conference, but using statistics is one way of comparing individual players. Then, to see which players are or are not returning to the next season would help in pre-season polling. As we've seen year in and year out, though, pre-season polls are pretty much a crap shoot.

[Laxfan87]

I once came across a game report where a player on a team had more assists then the teams goal total. Let's just say there was a zero that didn't belong.

it never got changed btw.

[MountaineerLax]

In the RMLC I have been monitoring stats all season.

Mostly, I add up the goals and assists and make sure they make sense (which all but only a few occasions have there been mistakes, and they were typos).

But 99% of the time I spend my time contacting teams and coaches about their goaltender reports.

I have even requested game film be reviewed to re-count the number of saves.

I can see them not being accurate - maybe off by 2 or 3, maybe 5 tops - but i've had instances this year where i've had to blow the whistle on a team after reporting 28 saves when the film showed 16. 12 phantom saves?

A team will get blown out and they're goalie allowed 25 goals - and then had 30 saves? I don't think that's even possible - unless the ball NEVER left the offensive zone and he gave up a lot of rebounds.

Luckily, our conference president supports my scrutiny and stands by it when called upon, but it's very annoying (and i'm sure insulting) for a team to have to provide evidence for some of these rediculous claims.

We've made it public notice that we are watching this and anything over 20 saves will be scrutinized. 25 saves and you had better have some evidence.

Just another reason all teams should have someone filming the game - to back up the claims, to study the strengths and weaknesses, and also to have record for who played on both sides - to support the entire league when it comes to monitoring eligibility....but that's a whole different thread.

[John Paul]

That's outstanding that you do that Dave. In a perfect world all conferences would have that kind of oversight, but most conferences don't have those kind of manpower resources. Ultimately, that's what it takes...someone in an official position checking after every game to make sure stats are entered on time and completely, and that they are checked if something seems wrong.

Film is key. I'm still amazed when I see teams, at any level, that don't film all of their games. It's so easy these days. Even if the team doesn't have the resources, someone on the team has a video camera, and there's always an injured player who could do it. Not only is it valuable for game analysis to show your players what they are doing right and wrong, but it's also a great keepsake (we make DVD copies of every game for every player, but those on your team who want copies could certainly make those copies themselves if they wanted them).

Film is also key for checking stats. Nobody, even at the highest levels, gets every stat right while they're doing it live. Lacrosse is a particularly hard sport to do stats for because it's so fluid. We eventually go back and check all of our stats on film. It takes about 90 minutes, and it's a good way to go through the film as a first review before you break it down.

[Zamboni_Driver]

So what does and does not constitute a save? What are the qualifications or parameters??

[MountaineerLax]

JP,

It's my understanding that there will be some rules that will be universal across all of the conferences as soon as the MCLA releases it's new By-Laws? Is this true? And when could we expect them?

A couple things we've run into and could use some help from the MCLA execs. on are....

1. Stats and game scores entry required by 72 hours (in place now) - but there are no penalties for those teams that do not. Doug Carl mentioned that we might be able to put them on administrative probation - but what does that mean?

2. A set amount of in-conference games that are required by each conference. We've run into some questions because here in the RMLC, with only 3 DI teams, we require 3 D1 In-confrence games (everyone plays each other). But in a conference such as the PNCLL where they have more D1 teams, they may require 8 or 9 in-conference games because again, everyone plays each other. So a team like CSU or BYU play 3 times in conference and 10+ times out of conference. Oregon plays in-conference 8 times and out of conference, at least 5 times less than their RMLC brethern.

This definitely effects the outcome of the season, as well as the growth of the league.

Plus, what's to stop a team from leaving a conference and joining another because the rules there are better for their success?

[Sonny]

So what does and does not constitute a save? What are the qualifications or parameters??

Check that handy dandy NCAA Rulebook. There is a section in the back, specifically for stats.

[MountaineerLax]

As I understand it....

There are 2 stats - "SHOTS" & "SHOTS ON GOAL"

I. A "shot" is ANY type of shot, whether it misses the goal or not.

II. A "shot on goal" is either a goal or a save.

III. Pipes are not "shots on goal", but they are most certainly "shots", as are shot attempts that are wide of the goal.

IV. A "save" is defined as anything that would've been a goal, had the goalkeeper not intervened.

[bullhighutewoozgriffclam]

if the ball would have gone in and the keeper stopped it from going in it's a save. if the shot was off cage and the goailie stopped it it's not a save. pretty sure i've got it.

here's a question, longpole picks up a groundball and lobs it to his keeper (it would have gone in) keeper catches it. save?

another one. do keepers get gbs for raking rebounds?

[bullhighutewoozgriffclam]

beat me by three minutes with a much more precise definition. i got it right though yay.

[MountaineerLax]

I. Long pole lobs it to a goalie - NOT A SAVE - because it wasn't a shot.

A shot is deemed anything that is projected at the goal from an opposing player.

The NCAA Rulebook states that in the event an "own-goal" no shot is recorded.

II. Keepers getting groung balls - I think they can get that stat - not sure though because GB's has got to be one of the hardest stats to track.... I don't even want to get into that one.

And who cares anyway - so what, you got 8 ground balls - why didn't you catch the ball that one time?

[nhoskins]

if the ball would have gone in and the keeper stopped it from going in it's a save. if the shot was off cage and the goailie stopped it it's not a save. pretty sure i've got it.

here's a question, longpole picks up a groundball and lobs it to his keeper (it would have gone in) keeper catches it. save?

another one. do keepers get gbs for raking rebounds?

The longpole lobbing it is passing the ball to the keeper. Not a save, just a caught pass from a teammate. If it goes in, then its a goal (no shot).

I think raking a rebound is a ground ball, as long as it is contested.

Here's a question... A shot is going wide of the net, the goaltender catches it. Its is a shot, NOT a save... but does the goalie get a groundball? What do you call shots off cage that the goalie catches? Not saves... then what?

[MountaineerLax]

It's called a heads-up play. - or - Way to be there kid. - or - Might as well have been a fast pass to the opposing goalie.

It's definitely a shot - but not a save because it did not have a chance at scoring.