What's Your New Top 10 D1 (4/5/08)

[onpoint]

When did CU lose to FSU?? Everyone wants to bury them on not going to FL and absolutely no one (including myself) knows all the circumstances surrounding it so they are not qualified to speak on it or empirically credit them with a forfeit loss.

[Ravaging Beast]

When did CU lose to FSU?? Everyone wants to bury them on not going to FL and absolutely no one (including myself) knows all the circumstances surrounding it so they are not qualified to speak on it or empirically credit them with a forfeit loss.

So teams can just cancel a game when they think they might lose with no consequences? Not saying that is the case with Colorado, but if you let that fly here, you might see it happen more often.

I wasn't saying that was the case with Colorado. I was just pointing out what a team could do if there are no consequences for canceling games. Once a game is set and the season has started, canceled games should count as forfeits with a chance to appeal. That is just my opinion.

[Zamboni_Driver]

When did CU lose to FSU?? Everyone wants to bury them on not going to FL and absolutely no one (including myself) knows all the circumstances surrounding it so they are not qualified to speak on it or empirically credit them with a forfeit loss.

Ok, so maybe not a loss. But suspicious and very convienent. They have to take a hit for canceling that game - it is not the role of the pollsters to find out, understand and weigh why they cancelled that game. All the pollsters know is it ripped away an opportunity to compare a team that seems mysterious.

[StrykerFSU]

When did CU lose to FSU?? Everyone wants to bury them on not going to FL and absolutely no one (including myself) knows all the circumstances surrounding it so they are not qualified to speak on it or empirically credit them with a forfeit loss.

Ok, so maybe not a loss. But suspicious and very convienent. They have to take a hit for canceling that game - it is not the role of the pollsters to find out, understand and weigh why they cancelled that game. All the pollsters know is it ripped away an opportunity to compare a team that seems mysterious.

I agree with this, teams do not operate in a vacuum and there needs to be a penalty for canceling games.

[univduke21]

Being in the program and personally knowing Coach Galvin, CU nor he would ever cancel a game because he or the program thought we would lose. To make even the hint that goes to show you the absolute zero knoweldge that you know of this league, team, and coach.

And how were they #16 to begin with?

[onpoint]

When did CU lose to FSU?? Everyone wants to bury them on not going to FL and absolutely no one (including myself) knows all the circumstances surrounding it so they are not qualified to speak on it or empirically credit them with a forfeit loss.

Ok, so maybe not a loss. But suspicious and very convienent. They have to take a hit for canceling that game - it is not the role of the pollsters to find out, understand and weigh why they cancelled that game. All the pollsters know is it ripped away an opportunity to compare a team that seems mysterious.

Very convenient. I suspect 2004 Coach of the Year John Galvin of foul play and conspiracy and I recommend that he and his team be immediately suspended for the rest of the year and into the next! Off with their heads!

[Zamboni_Driver]

Being in the program and personally knowing Coach Galvin, CU nor he would ever cancel a game because he or the program thought we would lose. To make even the hint that goes to show you the absolute zero knoweldge that you know of this league, team, and coach.

It is not about whether they would have won or lost. Its about an event that was going to provide people and pollsters and opportunity to rate the talent in the league. Its about giving the MCLA National Championship credibility that the teams that make it went through a rigorous evaluation.

And people who know Coach Galvin from his NCAA days have told me he is a great coach with great lacrosse knowledge.

[Zamboni_Driver]

And how were they #16 to begin with?

Posted this months ago:


ZD’s 2007 T#10: Colorado (16)
Breaking down this team is useless. 4 of their top 5 scorers have graduated or left, and rumors site the 5th has also left. It is the same story on the defensive side, where Dumford and Ferrarone have graduated and several others have departed for other programs. Additionally rumors however site to an impressive incoming class from freshman and transfers. Initial reaction to this team is drop them out of the T25, however, due to history, the fact CU has been able to pull good local and national talent, and that Coach Galvin and his staff always put out a good product, this team was been arbitrarily placed at #16. Starting them on the bubble means they can play their way in or out, and early competitors will not be falsely punished or praised for the outcome of the game.
Pts: OFF
ZD’s 2008 Preseason #16

[Zamboni_Driver]

When did CU lose to FSU?? Everyone wants to bury them on not going to FL and absolutely no one (including myself) knows all the circumstances surrounding it so they are not qualified to speak on it or empirically credit them with a forfeit loss.

Ok, so maybe not a loss. But suspicious and very convienent. They have to take a hit for canceling that game - it is not the role of the pollsters to find out, understand and weigh why they cancelled that game. All the pollsters know is it ripped away an opportunity to compare a team that seems mysterious.

Very convenient. I suspect 2004 Coach of the Year John Galvin of foul play and conspiracy and I recommend that he and his team be immediately suspended for the rest of the year and into the next! Off with their heads!

Or put them in the MCLA National Championship because of history. Which basically takes the NC and puts it on the level of the Major League Baseball All-Star Game as far as validity and credibility

[CATLAX MAN]

I don't think that you can knock down Colorado in the polls for not playing that game against FSU. Yes, it was a lost opportunity to judge them against another rated team, but lost opportunities are not wins or losses in my book. If that's your basis for knocking them down, I think it's off base.

Now, having said that, I do think that there should be some penalty for cancelling a scheduled game at the 11th hour like they did and UCLA did. To me, that is inexcusable and the league ought to deal with that harshly. It's totally separate from judging them in the polls, however.

Now if you want to knock them down for losing to unrated Utah, that's a different story altogether.

[Zamboni_Driver]

I don't think that you can knock down Colorado in the polls for not playing that game against FSU. Yes, it was a lost opportunity to judge them against another rated team, but lost opportunities are not wins or losses in my book. If that's your basis for knocking them down, I think it's off base.

And I really didn't. They were at 16 for me. Raised their stock with a win against Cal Poly, but then lost it back with a loss to Utah. At the same time Florida beat UCSB (and 3 other WCLL teams) and is on a 5 game win streak, so their stock jumped Colorado. At the same time, Virginia Tech beat FSU which also raised their stock. Colorado's loss to BYU didn't help or hurt them. It was more these other teams moved up (then again, that is because I feel I have more to go on with these other teams.)

[onpoint]

When did CU lose to FSU?? Everyone wants to bury them on not going to FL and absolutely no one (including myself) knows all the circumstances surrounding it so they are not qualified to speak on it or empirically credit them with a forfeit loss.

Ok, so maybe not a loss. But suspicious and very convienent. They have to take a hit for canceling that game - it is not the role of the pollsters to find out, understand and weigh why they cancelled that game. All the pollsters know is it ripped away an opportunity to compare a team that seems mysterious.

Very convenient. I suspect 2004 Coach of the Year John Galvin of foul play and conspiracy and I recommend that he and his team be immediately suspended for the rest of the year and into the next! Off with their heads!

Or put them in the MCLA National Championship because of history. Which basically takes the NC and puts it on the level of the Major League Baseball All-Star Game as far as validity and credibility

Where did I say that? Rank them wherever you want, and based on how much you follow the league, maybe you SHOULD be a pollster, but they most certainly did not lose to Florida State and should not be punished in the polls as such. CU took the chance to have the schedule that they did. If pollsters think they are deserving of one of the at-large bids, then so be it. If not, then they will stay home and I doubt you will hear much from the CU faithful arguing.

You really seem to think that none of the pollsters do any work at all. Is your systematic approach to ranking teams good? Of course. But do you not think the other pollsters have their own methodology as well? I doubt you are arrogant enough to believe that your method is the ONLY correct one.

Further, you are also discounting physical and visual evidence of actually seeing other teams in action. For all of the science you put into your own rankings, you don't take into account what teams actually LOOK like on a given day. Which teams have you seen play? If you have, please elaborate so your gospel has even more credence. Most pollsters in the league are coaches who see teams week in and week out. Just because team 'x' may have lost to so and so and lost their fifth-leading scorer from last year doesn't mean that a certain coach doesn't still believe they are the best in the country.

[Zamboni_Driver]

Where did I say that?

You didn't, just like I didn't say they shouldn't be in the tournament because of the single cancelled game.

And I do think the pollsters put alot of time into setting the rankings. I've stated several times that I'm amazed at how good a job they've done without an infrastructure to help them. I think pollsters should get rosters, schedules prior to the season. During season they should get video, and be paid for their time. Just look at the NCAA D1 laxpower vs poll and MCLA D1 vs laxpower. Not to say Laxpower is right (because it would be a bad argument), but MCLA is doing better than the NCAA in ranking talent.

I've also said I don't think laxpower or my method is the end all. I think it is 1 component, and having 40 pollsters smooths out any information gaps that all systems have.

I believe the colorado situation is a case study for the future. As the number of teams vying for a NC spot increases, the amount of information to the pollsters has to increase and the criteria to go to the NC has to increase, to show that every team was rigorously challenged and evaluated.

[Zamboni_Driver]

Speaking of seeing team play...

Anyone want to comment on Santa Clara??? I've got them at #22. I kinda like their scores, as compared to others in the T20-25

[PNWLaxer]

I think Colorado should be somewhere around #16, 18 might be bit low. But they are a .500 team. Wins against Poly #13-18, Texas unranked and Zona #25+. Factor in the losses to Utah, Oregon and BYU and I think they should be in the 13-18 range.

What have they done this year to deserve being higher than the mid-teens? They have not won a game against a team ranked above them yet and have lost to a team below them.