Third MDIA Div. A Top 25 Poll is out (3/23/05)!

[Daniel Morris]

Fair enough, I'm not campaigning for Pittsburgh, only using them as an example, just wanted to clear that up. But shouldn't the CCLA be judged by how the defending champ is performing?

Guru, you are continually knocking UNH in the polls and yet you put previously unranked Pittsburgh at #14. This shows you really don't see how the poll system works. Pittsburgh, who has beaten no one of any ranked value has a quality win over Buffalo by only one goal and lost to ranked Oakland by one (and Hogan is correct, this is the one noteworthy thing they have done all season). UNH who was unranked, beat two ranked teams and entered the polls at I believe only #22. Since then, they have done nothing to hurt their standing since their east coast season begins today, modestly moving up one spot. They have consistantly been in the Top 25 for the past 5 seasons, even representing the PCLL in the tourney.

What would make you believe Pitt could leap to #14? It would take nearly all of us voters jacking them way up for such a drastic movement. Like Catlax Man said, 30 voters and the 13 or so fan voters all came up with a virtually identical poll. My personal votes are very close to the actual poll, with some teams being ranked a couple of places up or down, but 85% of the teams exactly as they turned out. This leads me to believe that most of my fellow voters had similar thoughts. I did put Minnesota at #25 instead of Pitt, and they fell just shy at #26. Sure, there will always be some nepotism, but it isn't rampant or malicious and it all balances out with voters from around the country.

And to defend Sonny, this website is totally private and as I learned first hand as media staff at the tourny for the past three seasons, an unbelieveable amount of work. I am very frustrated with the lack of input by all teams, especially PCLL teams into USLIA.com, but we decided in Philly this year that we weren't going to force compliance with teams at this point. It means doing more legwork for polls, and All-American voting is going to be a horror show, but that is how it is right now. This new version of the website is a work in progress. The poll has been going strong for 8 years and improves every season. I think this is a very accurate reflection of the state of things in the league right now and obviously many of us agree.

[LaxGuru]

I never accused Sonny of dropping the ball, I was asking why it wasn't done a certain way and he answered. UNH beat two ranked teams who are no longer ranked at that has to be taken into consideration. My poll if you read the whole post before you answer was based of a poll I created in another forum that I directed people to. I had Pittsburgh at ranked lower than that in that pole but with every one losing and them at 6-1, I had them placed higher in the Guru poll, but since no one reads the intro I cansee why every one jumps to conclusions. Like what I was accused of.Funny, Huh!

[Dan Wishengrad]

UNH just lost 7-6 at home, to Cal

[LaxGuru]

Really? I didn't see that game on either teams schedule. If they did lose...well, see my previous statements about UNH. "A big man will admit when he's wrong....I'm not a big man!" (Fletch Lives)

[sohotrightnow]

Go Bears! Congrats on the win, even without the services of one of the best defenseman in the WCLL, Dave Massey.

[LaxGuru]

After much discussion with many people, what would people think of this idea-keep in mind it's a suggestion NOT a demand.

With the current voting system in place, eliminate the pre-season poll (or create one,don't release it but give it to selected pollsters to use as a guideline) (keep all individual league pre-seaon polls though)
1.) a team that gets a high ranking but can't play up to it won't be difficult to drop in further polls
2.) pollsters can look at say the first 2-3 weeks of action then vote and release that as the leagues first poll.
That would eliminate teams that are supposed to be good that are not up to standard (key personnel losses, injuries, unforseen bad play etc.) & also give teams starting strong that don't usually get notice the credit they deserve.
I realize that I've been pointing out problems without offering solutions, so I thought I'd take a stab at one.

[DG]

After much discussion with many people, what would people think of this idea-keep in mind it's a suggestion NOT a demand.

With the current voting system in place, eliminate the pre-season poll (or create one,don't release it but give it to selected pollsters to use as a guideline) (keep all individual league pre-seaon polls though)
1.) a team that gets a high ranking but can't play up to it won't be difficult to drop in further polls
2.) pollsters can look at say the first 2-3 weeks of action then vote and release that as the leagues first poll.
That would eliminate teams that are supposed to be good that are not up to standard (key personnel losses, injuries, unforseen bad play etc.) & also give teams starting strong that don't usually get notice the credit they deserve.
I realize that I've been pointing out problems without offering solutions, so I thought I'd take a stab at one.

I know you haven't read all the threads on this board, so I will agree with you by saying that this has been proposed before. Unless you wait at least 6 weeks in to the season, you still will end up with biases because the east coast teams don't really get going until mid march. Waiting on the first poll until 4 weeks in seems to be the best way to go. Slotting teams in to the pre-season poll just makes it harder for a legitimate team (who was unranked at the beginning of the season) to climb the ranks.

DG

[John Paul]

1. It's not our choice. The poll is conducted by uslia.com.

2. A preseason poll is important to us for a lot of reasons - most notably publicity and legitimacy.

[DG]

1. It's not our choice. The poll is conducted by uslia.com.

2. A preseason poll is important to us for a lot of reasons - most notably publicity and legitimacy.

1. True
2. Agreed. I just wish that somehow the pollsters had something more substantial to go on before putting out the first poll. Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways.

DG

[Kyle Berggren]

The poll is ran just as it should. Laxpower would be your replacement. I like having the TSI and the poll, neither is flawless, yet both are decent indicators of team strength, and that's all that matters.

[mholtz]

Sonny, I'm not doubting that at all. I understand getting the 30 now is difficult, but it could be done. If it couldn't, then the NCAA wouldn't be able to do it. Say for example, you take those 30 guys, instead of pollsters they stay on top of all the coaches to make sure the info gets done. Put out punishments to teams that don't submit the same way as if they don't pay their dues. I'm not trashing the league, I want it to be as popular as the NCAA, not just in the caliber of play but in how it is run. Games on T.V, webcast the whole shebang, my posts have only been looking for reasons people placed teams where they were, some showed some frustration with the replies I've gotten, but I'll openly admit when I stand corrected on something.
I also believe Danny and Alex to be very knowledgeable and I always take their input seriously. I'm only trying to create options here.

You are asking all USL-MDIA coaches to act as NCAA coaches do. The big problem is that most NCAA coaches do that as their full time job. Very few MDIA coaches (I can think of only 1) are MDIA coaches as their full time job. That means that you are asking people who already give up their time for little or no money to coach a team to give up more time to vote. I enjoy voting, and keeping up with everything going on, but when I was asked this year to do it again, I had to think about it because it is yet another thing to dedicate my already limited time to.

just my $0.02. We are better with a few, well informed, dedicated pollsters.

[mholtz]

The poll is ran just as it should. Laxpower would be your replacement. I like having the TSI and the poll, neither is flawless, yet both are decent indicators of team strength, and that's all that matters.

I disagree. Laxpower had Eastern Michigan at 0-2 ranked #15. Last year Laxpower had Michigan State at 4-11 in the top 30. Lax power has too many severe flaws.

[Kyle Berggren]

Laxpower even has a disclaimer about teams having played less than 5 games so I really take much into account before 7 or 8 games, but the TSI is very interesting. PR, SOS, RPI, QWF, Trend, Losses.... I like having both of them, but I do put more credibility into the uslia.com polls.Lawpower used to always have SFU as #1 in the Power Rankings, regardless of who they played, and I'm not trying to infer it's perfect. I'm just saying it's interesting, especially the TSI.

[stillwater killa]

Can anyone tell me if the tournament was to begin today, which teams would go based on the ranking system of the polls? Does the place a team is ranked determine the possibility of a spot at the national tournament? Do the top 16 teams always go? Or is it based on other variables? (i.e. strength of schedule, conference, etc.) Anything helps...

[onpoint]

In the championship forum there is a topic called, "If the tourney started today." Wishengrad has updated it with the last poll results.