PBS' Frontline: "Bush's War"

[Dan Wishengrad]

Did anybody else watch this last night? The interviews with the players involved were absolutely fascinating. The most chilling aspect was how this administration not only "froze out" it's own Sec. of State (Powell), but the National Security Advisor (Rice), also. The neo-con cabal led by Rumsfield and Cheney and were so determined to go to war that no inconvenient facts or internal opposition within their own Administration and cabinet could stop them from a decision made before the fact-finding was ever done. The revelation that our own Secretary of State could not even pick up the phone to speak to his President without getting an appointment first, and that his views would wind up so entirely dismissed because they were opposed by the V.P. and the Secretary of Defense, are hard to swallow. Where were the checks and balances?

The notion that President Bush "listens to his Generals", as he publicly insists, was absolutely shredded by this report -- the military leaders wanted a far larger invasion force (400,000) but were vetoed by Rumsfield who believed a smaller army was better. Any voices of opposition were dismissed, ridiculed or silenced and forced into retirement. The fact that Powell's speech to the U.N. was written by Scooter Libby and forced down his throat is fascinating also. Revelations that Cheney and Rumsfield kept marching into the CIA to bully and intimidate analysts who dared not produce the "evidence" that was wanted to support the fairy-tale on WMDs is certainly grounds for impeachment, in and of itself. This program shows clearly how the whole WMD rationale for war was concocted AFTER the decision was already made, and not before.

Ultimately, the decisions to use the discredited "yellow cake" fantasy and to rely on stories told by "Curveball", produced under torture, because the CIA could find no other supporting evidence to back up Cheney and Rumsfield's lust for war, and the subsequent "turning" of Tenet from a doubter to a cheerleader who would tell the President the case was a "slam dunk," is simply shameful. The program describes a Vice President and a Secretary of Defense who were out of control and who kept important facts and contrary opinions from our President, who needed to hear them. I have more respect for President Bush, in one sense, after watching this report. The Prez reviewed the evidence and had grave doubts that a case for war had been made -- and said so to his team. But he had allowed Cheney far too much power and relied far too heavily on Rumsfield to tell him the truth. Rumsfield was ultimately forced out, as he should have been. But Cheney remains in office despite committing unquestioned impeachable offenses -- crimes that have led to 4,000 dead and over 30,000 wounded U.S. soldiers.

I wonder what Senator McCain will say after watching this program? Will he still insist that the decision to invade Iraq was correct, and that only mistakes were made in the execution of the invasion and the plans for it's aftermath? I have far too much respect for Mac to believe this could be the case... but in a political campaign perhaps anything is possible.

PS Part II airs tonight...

[Adam Gamradt]

I will be watching tonight after our Bloomington Youth Lacrosse meeting.

Quite an intersting look at the decisions that led us to today. I hope everyone has a chance to watch, although I doubt many people will have the nerve to, especially the people who claim mindless Bush bashing is at the heart of every political argument. Hear no evil, see no evil. There is responsibility on both sides of the isle for this mess, but I'd really like to see a little more accountability from Republicans in general. Although I did see a Republicans for Obama bumper sticker today, that's a good start I guess. People are angry about the war, and the horrible decisions that got us to this place. This documentary has a lot of answer, and certainly raised a lot more questions.

Hopefully the next president will learn from these mistakes, and will reassert the importance of checks, balances, and getting opinions from differing sources. At the very least, I hope the next President will listen to the Secratary of State and National Security Advisor! Human beings are inherently vulnerable to misguided perceptions of reality. To take a page from conservative ideology, human beings are also motivated by their own self interst. To put so much faith in a single person, invites disaster. You know things are really bad when the CIA looks like the good guys, as they did in the run up to the war in Afganistan. I did not realize how badly we'd screwed up that operation as well. We let Bin Laden off the hook. The creation of an intelligence service based on the DoD as oppossed to the CIA is pretty scary.

My favorite part was when Tony Blair showed up for a meeting with President Bush, and Vice President Cheney was there. Blair really screwed up by promising to go to war if the UN sanctions failed. As stated in the documentary, he lost all leverage at that point.

I also didn't realize I liked Armitage. He's a straight shooter.

The truly wonderful thing about our country is our resilience. We've been subjected to a fairly awful set of leaders for the past eight years (more like 30 if you are being honest), and although things appear grim on the surface, there is a positive tone being set for the future. Even grossly inept and arrogant leaders like Vice President Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld can not do irreversible damage.

The players on our team are so incredibly bright, and so focused on the art of learning, I can't help but think the world will be better off with the next generation of leaders.

Some people say that election time brings out the worst in our country, but I disagree. Disagreement and aggressive discourse are good for a society. That we are able to do this every couple of years, as opposed to having our entire government break down each time we change leadership, as we see in so many other countries. Granted, there is room for improvement everywhere in American politics, but our founding fathers were incredibly smart. I'm just rereading the constitution, and to this day, I am fascinated by their amazing foresight.

[Zeuslax]

I watched it as well. I love Frontline and the work that they do. Usually a piece like this takes months to put together, but they just started in November. They put everything in one place for your consumption. The time line approach is a great piece of work. I wish they would have been able nail down how the administration was able to get Tenet to turn into such a yes man. I think no one will ever know. If only Tenet and Powell would have quit instead of trying to stay on and fight the good fight. Ultimately, I think they served their country as well as they could. It’s very scary to imagine who they would have brought on to replace them and what kind of additional damage would have been done to this country if that happened?

See http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/ for more info. There are lots of additional interviews and information.

The analogy I came up with last night as we watched this at home was Bush was like a little kid learning to walk. The adult clutches their hands over the head and holds them up just enough to help them walk. In this case the adults were Cheney and Rumsfeld acting as puppeteers. One had the right arm and the other the left. They weren't helping Bush walk they were making him walk.

The day after 911 they are asking how can we connect Iraq (or possibly Iran) to this? Rumsfeld's handwritten note was something I haven't seen or heard before. This whole affair and administration is absolutely so sad and disturbing.

Not having an NIE on Iraq is absolutely so amazing to me. Especially for a country we've been dropping bombs on for 7 years. WE DIDN'T EVEN NEED ONE! Then they put one together in two weeks with a forced hand. That is utterly impossible! I write gov't reports and know the complexity. I couldn’t imagine the rigors of State and Intelligence for reporting. We have all of the data and details staring you in the face and you can't do a 50 page report in 2 weeks. This should have taken at least a year to put together.

Cheney, Cheney's lawyer, Libby, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz should be in jail. No ifs ands or buts. Congress could not have been more inept.

[Dan Wishengrad]

II also didn't realize I liked Armitage. He's a straight shooter.

I felt exactly the same thing. I knew that Armitage (or "Tiny" as he said Bush called him LOL) was the one who leaked Plame's identity to Novak and had him lumped together in my mind with the rest of the neo-con gang. I found his insights to be honest and refreshing, and thought the man came off as both credible and competent. Too bad Tenet didn't agree to be interviewed also, he clearly has a lot of explaining to do...

Can't wait to watch Part II!

[Zeuslax]

felt exactly the same thing. I knew that Armitage (or "Tiny" as he said Bush called him LOL) was the one who leaked Plame's identity to Novak and had him lumped together in my mind with the rest of the neo-con gang. I found his insights to be honest and refreshing, and thought the man came off as both credible and competent. Too bad Tenet didn't agree to be interviewed also, he clearly has a lot of explaining to do...

Can't wait to watch Part II!

Watched part two last night. I didn't catch the beginning. Did anyone get the feeling that Bush is way to trusting?

That’s always been Armitage's problem, he's a straight shooter. That's also been the reason for his success from what I understand. Many believed he was feed the information about Plame on purpose. They knew he wouldn't be able to keep such information in, especially since he thought it was damaging America. Feed lies and he thought he was doing the right thing.

Lastly, Tenet, you don't get to be top dog in the CIA by running your jaws. We will never know his true intentions. One thing is obvious he continued to try to fight the good fight in some areas, but no one will ever understand the slam dunk comment.

[KnoxVegas]

While I have not always agreed with Armitage's method, I have respected him for his bluntness. I redeemed himself in my eyes when he said that his realtionship with Wolfowitz is no more over all this.

I thought the analysts comments regarding Tenet were quite telling: That he wanted to be part of the club and let his ambition get the best of him. Tenet sold his whole career out for the affections of the popular clique.

Take the fact Bush bailed on his own meeting to decide yet another way forward for Iraq, only to show up in Baghdad 10 hours later. The US holds elections in Iraq, only to see the candidates they back trounced and then are forced to deal with al Maliki. Then Bush shows up for five hours to gauge if al Maliki can be trusted, using the same method presumably that Bush used on Putin ("I looked into his soul.."). The still photo of a befuddled Cheney, a stunned Rice and Rumsfeld giving the thumbs up just sealed the deal. The average person spends more than five hours purchasing a car.

Or what about Bremer's total lack of knowledge of the Middle East making him perfect in the eyes of Bush. That was a great move dissolving the Iraqi army, Paulie. So was the de-Baathification order. Or Casey never having commanded troops in combat, ever. Preceded by a general who had only commanded a division prior to taking the reigns in Iraq.

The overall sense I got from the program last night was that it became quite clear in late 2003 that things weren't going well and that we would be there for a long time, trying to put the country back together. The Bush Administration thought this would be over in a month and five years later, we are (and will be so for the foreseeable future) paying for their gross incompetence. Again, never let the facts get in the way of your truth.

[Dan Wishengrad]

IMHO Bremer came off as less than credible in his interviews. He was clearly the wrong man for the job and without the relevant experience to be placed in such a critical position. But it is clear that loyalty to the neo-cons trumps all other factors when the Bush administration makes hiring decisions (how else could someone like Mike Brown be given stewardship of FEMA with no real emergency management background?). Bremer's claim of "not remembering" such a crucial early meeting in Baghdad with the NSC's Blackwill is simply not believable. Dr. Rice sends her top strategist from Washington to Baghdad specificially for this meeting, yet Bremer can't even remember meeting with "his good friend"? Anybody believe him?

Decisions to place command of our ground forces with soldiers who had no experience leading an army, like Sanchez, or in the hands of minor Pentagon bureaucrats, like Casey, who had no combat experience at all, was pure and simple incompetence. While it is understandable that Rumsfield and Cheney wanted guys they could easily manipulate instead of strong, experienced military leaders who could perform their jobs competently, it is not excusable either. The incompetence that Rumsfield and Cheney insisted on meant Americans would die. Where is the outrage from families of slain and injured U.S. soldiers? The fault lies not with loyal soldiers who follow orders, it lies with those at the top who command them and who orchestrate the catastrophe. Rumsfield is out of office, thankfully, while Cheney is free to currently tour the Middle East to beat the drums for a new war against Iran now. Why are these two men not already in prison?

[Zeuslax]

There was another Frontline piece on Iraq last year. I'm not sure if anyone else saw it. If you haven't do your self and favor and watch it online. Very detailed interviews with Chalabi and Bremer. Bremer acted as king and the scared the crap out of this administration at times, which seems inconceivable. Lots of the interviews last night were from that orginal piece.

[KnoxVegas]

"The Lost Year in Iraq" about Bremer in Iraq is available online here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/yeariniraq/

[KnoxVegas]

"The Lost Year in Iraq" about Bremer is available online here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/yeariniraq/

[Steno]

It's always interesting how the more conservative folks on the boards never join discussions like these.

I didn't see the program because my free cable only gets comedy central and telemundo, but thanks for the breakdown fellas.

[Dan Wishengrad]

I didn't see the program because my free cable only gets comedy central and telemundo, but thanks for the breakdown fellas.

Steno, watch it here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/

[UkraineNotWeak]

It's always interesting how the more conservative folks on the boards never join discussions like these.

Because PBS has it in for conservatives and spreads lies. This "documentary" is as credible as Fahrenheit 9/11.

[KnoxVegas]

I didn't see the program because my free cable only gets comedy central and telemundo, but thanks for the breakdown fellas.

Your cable company does not include PBS on its free-tier? Somewhere Nixon is enjoying a good laugh!

[BucLax13]

"The truth has a well known liberal bias"