Top 25 D2 Results for Poll #2

[Kyle Berggren]

I don't think the PNCLL is as clear cut as UPS on top, then everyone else... I'd say we have 5-6 teams that could win the conference, front runners being WWU, WOU, CWU, Whitman, & hopefully UPS. Both WWU & UPS won overtime games against Whitman on the road. CWU plays Whitman today, we'll see how they stack up against each other & hopefully it will be more than a coin toss.

I'd still say that WWU is the measuring stick for the PNCLL teams. They are still finding themselves with new coaching again, but they'll be fine by the end of the season. Winning OT games on the road is tough, & a good sign for them. I didn't get to see the WOU win over WWU, but they have to be tossed in to that mix as well. Last year they were the 3 seed in our playoffs, after beating the WCLL's Biola & Irvine to finish the season 9-3. It's tough to rank the PNCLL until they have OOC games played because it's tough to rank the conference, but you could pile those 5 teams together in your poll in any order & not be too far off. Injuries & the loss of players could be the difference in teams by playoff time. Everyone plays each other this year so you'll have a better answer by the end of the year. Actually, we play CWU & WWU next weekend. One thing that is killing these teams is matchups. We have d oriented teams against attack oriented teams against teams that only attack from the midfield. You'll see plenty of A>B>C>A this year. I'm glad I'm not voting.

I haven't seen any 2008 OOC games, but I did attend Nationals for the past 2 seasons. The teams I've listed can absolutely play with the teams that made the trip the last 2 years. Actually, last seasons WWU team played a 1 or 2 goal game against the eventual winner Montana last season in our conference championship. Obviously Montana was the cream of our crop, but the PNCLL-2 hasn't just dropped off with them leaving, teams have reloaded & are making big steps. Whitman's 2 best players are a freshman & a sophomore, they're going to be good for a long time. CWU is adding a goalie from my HS All-star team (he'll immediately be competing for first team in '09), & they're not a traditional power, but will keep improving over the years. This is the worst they're going to look for quite a while, & they don't look bad at all. We're going to be up & down year to year depending on talent.

I tell you guys this just because I can see all of the PNCLL teams huddled around the 10 spot. If teams lose players or can't win, they have to drop in the poll, but they can still play with or beat just about any team I saw in Dallas the last 2 years. It's not a fluke or a joke, the PNCLL has been strong, you're just seeing a shift in power a bit now as lax grows out West.

[nhoskins]

i guess ill share my two cents about the pncll. Besides UPS, its a round robin of who is the best. It seems everyone has lost to the other guy so without some strong OOC games its hard to place these teams in the top 15 until the play more games and prove they deserve it or schedule some OOC games.

I don't see how losing conference games immediately makes you a 20-25 team. In Division 1, if CU beats CSU who beats BYU who beats CU... none of those teams are dropping out of the top 10. I think the PNCLL Div 2 has the parity we've seen in the past in the RMLC Div. 1. I don't think any PNCLL Div. 2 team deserves to be number 1, but they certainly don't deserve to fall out of the polls, or to 20-25 just because they have a strong conference.

[scooter]

It's just unfortunate that the PNCLL doesn't have a reputation of success that preceeds them. Outside WWU, none of the them made nationals last year, and WWU got bounced in the first round. So its hard to make a case that they all deserve to be ranked, without having some quality OCC competition as a measuring stick

[Kyle Berggren]

Scooter, I agree, it's tough to be in the top ten when you're not playing the top 10. We need more OOC games if we want to complain about our rankings, but you missed a team or two. WOU quietly went to the WCLL & beat their two best teams last year, WWU & Montana went to nationals & obviously one faired better than the other, but both played OOC games last year as well. WWU played Montana to a 1 goal game in the PNCLL championship, having a lead against them with a few minutes left which is something that didn't happen to them against anyone but Westminster in Nationals. The PNCLL is improving, I'll stand up & say it, I'm coaching against better teams. I think we're in about the same situation the RMLC had last year, lots of quality teams, but the difference is we're even closer together talent wise.

[scooter]

Oh, I don't doubt the quality of the league at all. I'm just saying of the teams currently in divison 2, they didn't fare particularly well against the other division 2 teams that made it to nationals. It sucks because there could definitely be a 1, 2, 3 teams who deserve to be ranked highly...but no one will really ever know unless a few of them play top ranked OOC teams during the regular season.

[CharlotteLAX16]

The past 24 hours of this thread will undoubtedly make me pay close attention to teams in the PNCLL. The discussion that has been going on is great for people like me who dont really know anything about teams on the other side of the country(for me, at least). Discussion like this does nothing but good for the fans of the MCLA...i love it.

[Kyle Berggren]

It's official... Going to be an interesting year in the PNCLL...

Whitman, a team I believe would have faired well in Dallas last year has played 3 of the PNCLL teams we're talking about.... WWU & UPS beat them in overtime.... CWU just beat them by 1 as well. That's 4 teams that could be each other on any given day. Toss WOU in the mix & you have a team that shocked WWU & beat them badly one day, but lost by 2 to CWU the next. UPS & PLU play WWU & CWU next weekend.

That's my top 5, add PLU or SOU in the mix after that. SOU is not healthy right now, but that will pay dividends come playoff time. PLU is still 2-1 in conference play so we'll see how it goes, good luck to the voters.

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

It's just unfortunate that the PNCLL doesn't have a reputation of success that preceeds them. Outside WWU, none of the them made nationals last year, and WWU got bounced in the first round.

I'd say a D2 National Championship gives the PNCLL a pretty solid D2 reputation. Also, Montana just might have had something to do with ONLY WWU going to Nationals last year. . .

[unclaxman23]

Northern Colorado Bears 18 Regis University 3

[Beta]

Emory over Alabama (19-2) and Eckerd (11-2) over the weekend.

[Gvlax]

i guess ill share my two cents about the pncll. Besides UPS, its a round robin of who is the best. It seems everyone has lost to the other guy so without some strong OOC games its hard to place these teams in the top 15 until the play more games and prove they deserve it or schedule some OOC games.

I don't see how losing conference games immediately makes you a 20-25 team. In Division 1, if CU beats CSU who beats BYU who beats CU... none of those teams are dropping out of the top 10. I think the PNCLL Div 2 has the parity we've seen in the past in the RMLC Div. 1. I don't think any PNCLL Div. 2 team deserves to be number 1, but they certainly don't deserve to fall out of the polls, or to 20-25 just because they have a strong conference.

I was just commenting that for non pncll voters i can see how it would be tough to put these teams in the top 25 because of 1) lack of OOC games to show the true strength of the conference and 2) its a A lost to B who lost to C who lost to A situation. If a voter is not familar with the current strength of teams in the PNCLL it would be hard to put ALL of these teams in the top 15, and if you put one in there you would have to put all of them because of situation i previously state.

no a conference game does not mean you should drop out of the top 15 but with CSU and CU, many voters know their strength of the team currently, not so much for PNCLL after Montana left.

[Gvlax]

I think that the whole PNCLL-2 division could be judged how strong it is with one of their only strong OOC games, WWU vs Montana, on April 19th, Until then its a guess really how strong the conference is to outside voters who dont get to see the teams play. I am glad i am not a voter, yet.

[Hi-Line Lax]

we don't play WWU this year... maybe you mean Montana State?

[primetime21]

this is why OOC games are so important, there are many teams that schedule the minimum OOC games to qualify for nationals, but do not necessarily test themselves as a team or allow them to be put out their to be judged or tested. their is a case for all pncll-2 teams to be top 10 or 15 teams, but some of them are choosing not to travel, or bring any outside teams in. this makes it hard to establish ourselves as a strong league.

for example, Oregon gets the publicity because they not only play top teams, but they also travel, many times going to multiple leagues a year. traveling to Michigan, Utah, California...etc. where as the budget of d-2 teams don't allow for that much traveling.

i like what Irvine has done the last few years in holding an invitational. this gives the small schools a chance to play multiple teams in one spot rather than paying to travel everywhere.

as a suggestion i would like to see each conference put on at least one invitational a year, that allows for more OOC games without increasing travel budgets...kill two birds with one stone.

[Pinball]

as a suggestion i would like to see each conference put on at least one invitational a year, that allows for more OOC games without increasing travel budgets...kill two birds with one stone.

UMLL Div 2 is probably the best when it comes to OOC scheduling. The top teams actively have been searching out the top OOC teams to play since the inception of the Div 2/B poll. It seems to have worked out nicley for them and continued to help with recruiting, money and media coverage.