Pollsters a moment of your time

[Aaron Myers]

IF there are any pollsters out there I would love some feedback on this. First of all, good luck with the whole BYU, Zona, Michigan circus. An argument could be made for Michigan to move up with a convincing win over Zona and a close loss to BYU. Next up is LIndenwood. I follow the conferences fairly closely but Lindenwood is new to the top 25. Their record already contains wins over Miami and UMD, but UMD barely beat a mid level WCLL team in Cal last year and has since lost their best player in Uzlik and defenseman in Daehn(I think). What warrants such a high ranking? The GRLC is a newer conference that has showed improvement but still ranks last or second to last in terms of overall competitiveness with other conferecnces. Missouri was unimpressive in St Louis last year and seemed to be the beneficiary of good publicity and connections in the poll (higher seed), although they did earn the right to go. LIndenwood comes from nowhere to be the 15 seed with wins over two low level Top 25 teams? I haven't seen them play but Have seen some of the teams they've played and it just doesn't add up. I am impressed with VT and FSU, who showed that they can remain competitive with top ten teams as well as beat the teams they should. Maybe its just me but to be in the top 15 you need to have beaten atleast some of the teams around your ranking. Lindenwood plays only two ranked teams the rest of the season, both outside the top 20. I see them sitting at 21 or 20 with something to prove. ANy insight into this topic would be appreciated

[Guest]

How do you explain Boston College ranking then?
Look at their schedule.

You said that LU needs to beat teams around their ranking to justify being ranked # 15.--They did!!!!! They beat the #12 and the #17 team; you contradict yourself.

[Guest]

[quote="lulions"]How do you explain Boston College ranking then?
Look at their schedule.

[AlumniLax]

i'm seeing that most lindenwood folk out there have trouble understand how polls are run. it is not from where the rankings used to be, it is from where the teams are ranking now. without lu winning their conference, they wont be in blaine. their schedule is too weak. when they step up and play major out of conferences games then we can talk about their ranking deserving of a top15. right now though, they need to focus on beating ttu or else all this talk will be moot.

[mholtz]

I am a pollster, and I can say how I make my votes, and I am guessing most others use a similar process.

1. The preseason poll is usually based on whatever info I can find on teams, but it also has to be based on last years end of year polls. There just isn't enough time, or resources available to research a preseason poll enough to get it right the first time.

2. All polls after that are based on the previous poll, and wins/losses of the teams on that poll, taking into consideration undefeated teams that are off the poll. I use uslia.com, laxpower, and the various conference/team pages to see the results.

Being a pollster isn't easy. It takes me at least a few hours each poll to gather the info I need, and vote. I enjoy it, but iit is deffinately a lot of work.

Because of time constraints, though, there will often be a team that I miss a win, or a loss for.

Fortunately, I am one of 30 div A pollsters, so a mistake on my part will not really impact the polls.

hope this helps,
Matt Holtz
USLIA.COM System Administrator

[Pinball]

but UMD barely beat a mid level WCLL team in Cal last year and has since lost their best player in Uzlik and defenseman in Daehn

Daehn is still there and still very good. In my opinon Duluth is a much better team then last year with their sick freshman class.

[onpoint]

Not sure if others do it the same way. I have my own poll that I use every week. I do not even look at where teams ended up in the actual poll of 30 voters. I am only concerned with how good I think the teams are. Everyone should have their own list of how good they think teams are and not just scrap that every two weeks to go off what the rest of the voters said.

[CATLAX MAN]

Not sure if others do it the same way. I have my own poll that I use every week. I do not even look at where teams ended up in the actual poll of 30 voters. I am only concerned with how good I think the teams are. Everyone should have their own list of how good they think teams are and not just scrap that every two weeks to go off what the rest of the voters said.

This is the way it shuld be done. The main poll is an average of all the pollsters. You should rank the teams in relation to how they move off of your poll, not off of the average.

[AlumniLax]

so wait then...... im lost. what if you were a, for instance, take lindenwood as an example. you are a voter in the grlc and they go undefeated. is that worthy of placing them #1 because you think they are the best on your ballot? i just don't see that as being fair. it needs to be something along the lines of the AP and USA TODAY/ESPN polls. 1 poll that comes out and then they are shuffled around during the season based on wins and losses. obviously you are pretty much going to get the top 5 correct, but the problems arrises with your way of voting in the 8-15 or higher range. look at this years examples from college football both AU an UTAH were left out even though they felt like they deserved a chance....

[BB]

LU went and beat teams in the 8-20 range. Which is what they need to do to get to the top of that range, say between 10-15.

Any school can play a top 7 team and get worked and claim oh it was because it was a top dog. And it would have happened to any team. If a team plays 2 top 25 teams and wins they will be moved up, to that level. If they win all 4 they more than deserve to be at the very top of a very level, second tier of teams. That is not easy to do with the level of parity after the top dogs. Anyone from 8-35 could win at anytime, now how they stack up against each other is where they should be ranked by.

Why didn't Duluth and Miami deserve their rankings, anyless than any other team? That seems to be your justification Voter's have seen them in St. Louis and know how they play, and know who they would have lost etc....

ALumniLax you get judged on who you play based on where the polls are when you play a team. Duluth was 12# Miami 17# when they faced a good LU squad. The fallout from that weekend was the only thing that knocked Duluth and Miami down in the polls, mind you all very tightly contested games, closer than any to Texas etc.... We'll see how they handle T.Tech.

GT, VT sound good, FSU loses to Minnesota. Throws another wrench in the mix. Very even.

[CATLAX MAN]

so wait then...... im lost. what if you were a, for instance, take lindenwood as an example. you are a voter in the grlc and they go undefeated. is that worthy of placing them #1 because you think they are the best on your ballot?

It doesn't mean that you should suspend fairness or good judgement in favor of homerism.

[CATLAX MAN]

ALumniLax you get judged on who you play based on where the polls are when you play a team. Duluth was 12# Miami 17# when they faced a good LU squad. The fallout from that weekend was the only thing that knocked Duluth and Miami down in the polls, mind you all very tightly contested games, closer than any to Texas etc.... We'll see how they handle T.Tech.

The point that you fail to see that, as the other teams drop in the polls as the weeks go by, those wins take on less significance in the voter's mind. That is due to the fact that early season polls are mostly speculation and, as games get played, teams move in relation to their results. Yes, they were #12 & #17 then, but they aren't now (they're #20 & #21), so those wins don't mean as much as the season progresses. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp.

[BB]

I see that point, and I understand it. But.... the only Duluth Losses were to Miami and Lindenwood, by 1 while LU rolls in Texas, and will probably fair well against other teams. If anything LU is hurt by the lackluster schedules of Duluth and Miami, and poor showing by Texas. While Duluth may be pretty good they won't really be able to show it again unless they win the UMLL.

So yes the wins don't look that great, but Lindenwood beating them is the only reason Duluth and Miami really moved down in the polls that much. Otherwise they look like pretty even teams playing each other. So your logic while it makes sense also hurts Lindenwood and would not allow them to gain in the polls because whoever they beat would not then be ranked as high as they were unless LU was ranked ahead of them.

[CATLAX MAN]

So your logic while it makes sense also hurts Lindenwood and would not allow them to gain in the polls because whoever they beat would not then be ranked as high as they were unless LU was ranked ahead of them.

By George, I think he's got it.

It will be difficult for them to rise much higher in the polls because they don't play (therefore, they will not beat) the teams above them. That's how you rise in the polls. They will be lucky to gain much more ground than #15. However, it really doesn't matter that much. Win the GRLC and you're in as the AQ no matter what the ranking is. The bigger problem that Lindenwood will face is whether they be tourney ready when it rolls around. It's a totally different thing facing BYU, Sonoma, etc. than either UMD or Miami (no disrespect to those teams intended).

[Tim Whitehead]

Not sure if others do it the same way. I have my own poll that I use every week. I do not even look at where teams ended up in the actual poll of 30 voters. I am only concerned with how good I think the teams are. Everyone should have their own list of how good they think teams are and not just scrap that every two weeks to go off what the rest of the voters said.

I think that while you shouldn't let the poll affect you too much, you should at least look at it and consider what other people think. For instance, Alex, let's say you did your poll and for one reason or another didn't put (for example) Oregon State on there. Maybe they're a damn good team, but for one reason or another they just weren't on your radar. By looking at the poll, you might think "damn, they should have been on my poll, I'll get them on there next time". I think the most responsible way to vote is yes, to keep your own poll from week to week, but at the same time look at what other people are picking to see if there's something you might have missed.