ALEX RODRIGUEZ!!!!

[TheBearcatHimself]

The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim in the state of California within the United States.

Well played.

[cjwilhelmi]

I think I'll stick with the reigning World Series MVP, Mike Lowell.

On that note, there is NO WAY Lowell was the MVP, it was Jacoby Ellsbury 100%, he made that team go in the Series, not Lowell, how ridiculous, I guess you can't delegitimize the World Champs by making a rookie the MVP, so silly.

Glad to know that I wasn't the only one who thought this.

[Dan Wishengrad]

I've been watching A-Rod since his rookie season here in Seattle. The guy is a great player, but he's also a study in contradictions all by himself.

When he bailed out on the Mariners, who offered him a fantastic long-term deal to stay, he said it "wasn't about the money" but the chance to play on a World series contender. Then he signed the biggest deal ever to go to Texas, a perennial cellar-dweller. Texas continued to lose as consistently WITH A-Rod as they did without him. The M's turned things around without our three biggest stars (A-Rod, the Big-Unit and Jr.) and became a good ball-club, setting the modern-day mark for wins with 116 without Alex at short a few years back.

When he bailed on the Rangers and forced the trade, he said it was to try to win a WS with the Yankees. He showed humility by instantly agreeing to try third base, although IMHO A-Rod is a much better defensive shortstop than Jeter, but NY fans will not agree because they think Jeter is a God who walks on water. I always laugh, by the way, when Yankee fans argue that Jeter is the best shortstop in baseball. He's not (although he is a great clutch hitter), and he's not even the best shortstop on his own team. One of my favorite baseball jokes: "If you look up a definition of the word 'conceited' in the dictionary, you will find a photo of Derek Jeter."

Now that A-Rod is bailing on the Yankees, he's again saying it's not about the money. Good line in the local paper today said "it's just about every other player making LESS money". Does Alex think whatever team signs him to his new $30 million a year deal will have lots left over to pay 8 other guys AND a pitching staff, too? Is A-Rod prepared to start pitching every fifth day, himself?

He is a decent guy, he is a good teammate and he carried the Yankees in '07 with his incredible regular season. If Steinbrenner had spent his millions more wisely on pitching, the Bronx Bombers might have won a WS during A-Rod's tenure there. But if Alex really wants us to believe this isn't about the money, he will offer to take less if his new club can spend what they save on him to build the kind of complete team the Red Sox have done. And I'll bet Scott Boras' ranch that just won't happen.

[TheBearcatHimself]

although IMHO A-Rod is a much better defensive shortstop than Jeter, but NY fans will not agree because they think Jeter is a God who walks on water. I always laugh, by the way, when Yankee fans argue that Jeter is the best shortstop in baseball. He's not (although he is a great clutch hitter), and he's not even the best shortstop on his own team.

I think this is a crucial point in understanding why so many hate Arod irrationally. This is a player who was regarded as possibly becoming the best shortstop EVER by the time his career was over at short, but curveball, he has to play 3rd base for the Yanks. No biggie, he just goes out and puts up some of the greatest numbers at that position too, while still playing a statistically brilliant defensive game as well. The phrase "5-tool-player" is unfair for Arod, because he is a 6 or 7 tool player, he provides a team the 5 tools, plus credibility, intimidation, etc. He does everything and more.

On the Jeter note, he is a legitimate shortstop, but when history looks back on him I would be shocked if it is in any light brighter than say a Phil Rizzuto...solid player, had some heart, but really? Didn't have all the transcendent athleticism that his peergroup's stars did like an Arod, Miguel Tejada, or even an Edgar Renteria. As a guy who had Jeter on his fantasy all season: Jeter gives you 180ish hits and not much else, and that in the end doesn't do much.

I thought the most crucial at bat in game 4 of the ALDS against the Indians was an at-bat by Jeter: one out, runner on 1st in the 7th inning, grounds into a double play. That was a situation where you expect the "clutch hitter" to come through with the big hit, or at least get the runner to 2nd, something you know. But no Jeter didn't do that, and history will conveniently forget this fact, and blame Arod for all of the Yankees' failures.

[`MM9]

As a Bostonite, and proud member of Red Sox ?Nation...

I think the Red Sox should spend the money and get A-Rod. Then once the season starts....assign him to their AAA team.

[BucLax13]

Pawtucket already has plenty of water boys?

[StrykerFSU]

I don't want to turn this into a debate on the WS MVP...but I'm going to have to address this Jacoby v. Mikey question.

Either one is a fine choice for MVP.
Offense
Ellsbury .438, 7 H, 3 RBI, 1 SB, 4 2B, 4 R
Lowelll .400, 6 H, 4 RBI, 1 HR, 3 2B, 6 R

Defense
Ellsbury 10 TC, 10 PO, 0 E
Lowell 11 TC, 2 PO, 8 A, 1 E

I don't know that you can say there is no way that Lowell deserved the MVP or that his honor was ridiculous. Ellsbury might have lost votes for being a rookie but that does not mean that Lowell did not earn the MVP.

Pawtucket already has plenty of water boys?

Do they have strip clubs in Pawtucket where ARod can meet "friends"?

[Ben Clark]

I think I'll stick with the reigning World Series MVP, Mike Lowell.

On that note, there is NO WAY Lowell was the MVP, it was Jacoby Ellsbury 100%, he made that team go in the Series, not Lowell, how ridiculous, I guess you can't delegitimize the World Champs by making a rookie the MVP, so silly.

Woah woah woah... I would say you could make a case for Ellsbury as WS MVP, but to say he was the MVP 100% is silly. He had an awesome Game 3 and a great Game 4, but that can't be enough to win MVP of the Series.

Personally, I think Papelbon should have won MVP, but I certainly don't have a problem with Lowell winning it.

[Dan Wishengrad]

On the Jeter note, he is a legitimate shortstop, but when history looks back on him I would be shocked if it is in any light brighter than say a Phil Rizzuto...solid player, had some heart, but really? Didn't have all the transcendent athleticism that his peergroup's stars did like an Arod, Miguel Tejada, or even an Edgar Renteria. As a guy who had Jeter on his fantasy all season: Jeter gives you 180ish hits and not much else, and that in the end doesn't do much.

The problem, Will, is how we define "best" anything. If we are talking pure defensive skills, the best shortstop of the past decade is clearly Omar Vizquel, and nobody is even close IMHO. But because "Little O" isn't the hitting star that A-Rod, Tejada, Jeter or even Nomar (at his prime) are or were, he tends to get overlooked in the conversation.

Baseball has a long history of awarding its' Gold Glove to players who are fine defensive players but are great hitters, also. Ivan Rodriguez is a perfect example -- solid catcher with a cannon for an arm -- but worthy of ten straight Gold Gloves? Not. I-Rod was an awesome hitter which elevated his defensive skills in the mind of baseball writers, who overlooked the fact that the best purely defensive players over the past decade were guys like Benjie Molina or Brad Ausmus, who are better at preventing passed balls but might not have the show-off arm that I-Rod does. Heck, sometimes the best defensive catchers don't even start on their own teams but back-up the better hitter. Eric Chavez of the A's wins the GG at 3B every year, but IMHO isn't as good defensively as Adrian Beltre, who gets to more balls, has a surer glove and a much better arm. Is Andruw Jones reeally the best defensive centerfielder, or does he beat out Mike Cameron consistently because he hits more HRs?

It's a fun debate, in any case.

[TheBearcatHimself]

It's a fun debate, in any case.

It is very fun, and lacking much else to do with baseball right now I am forced to assault your argument against Chavez

Statistically (according to one of my favorite websites baseballreference.com) Chavez is a far superior 3rd baseman compared to Beltre. Only one season has Beltre had a fielding % above .968 and that was his historically aberrant statistical year of 2004 in which he also hit 48 home runs, over 20 more than he has hit in any other season EVER (and the Seattle Mariners bit on that mirage hardcore!) So he had one good season while Chavez has had more double plays and assists in every season than Beltre but one, which means he is fielding more balls and making more plays. The last two years Beltre has more put outs and assists because Chavez has not played a full season, yet Chavez still put up an amazing .987 fielding % in 06 and a not too shabby .975 this season in 88 games.

Perception is everything in this league, and your Andruw Jones point is a great one, as a Braves fan I know that he lost a step at least 5 years ago but no one has really noticed because he comes in on short balls better than any outfielder in history possibly, nonetheless it is a perception game and the guys who stand atop that hill will hold until someone knocks them off.

Also, Troy Tulowitzki was clearly the superior all around rookie this season, but Ryan Braun put up the power numbers for a team that got a lot more credibility earlier on for a playoff push. Sadly chicks dig the long ball so Braun will most likely win the popularity contest of ROY.

[TheBearcatHimself]

I don't want to turn this into a debate on the WS MVP...but I'm going to have to address this Jacoby v. Mikey question.

Either one is a fine choice for MVP.
Offense
Ellsbury .438, 7 H, 3 RBI, 1 SB, 4 2B, 4 R
Lowelll .400, 6 H, 4 RBI, 1 HR, 3 2B, 6 R

Defense
Ellsbury 10 TC, 10 PO, 0 E
Lowell 11 TC, 2 PO, 8 A, 1 E

I don't know that you can say there is no way that Lowell deserved the MVP or that his honor was ridiculous. Ellsbury might have lost votes for being a rookie but that does not mean that Lowell did not earn the MVP.

Stryker, thank you for the good data, I will definitely have to back off my "NO WAY" statement earlier, however I personally thought that Ellsbury was the spark plug that ignited that offense in the series in all 4 games, not just the last two. While the third game's 4 hits and 3 doubles made his statistical case twice as strong, he did produce a hit in every game I believe?

His versatility to move around in a somewhat hurting (and suspiciously inept?) outfield was crucial to the Red Sox in the series I felt. Lowell was solid, but I felt MVP was not a title to place on him for that series.

Whoever made the point that Papelbon could be MVP also is dead on, he also closed the door 4 times and without him I don't know if the Rockies wouldn't have stolen a game in Colorado.

[horn17]

On the Jeter note, he is a legitimate shortstop, but when history looks back on him I would be shocked if it is in any light brighter than say a Phil Rizzuto...solid player, had some heart, but really? Didn't have all the transcendent athleticism that his peergroup's stars did like an Arod, Miguel Tejada, or even an Edgar Renteria. As a guy who had Jeter on his fantasy all season: Jeter gives you 180ish hits and not much else, and that in the end doesn't do much.

Is Andruw Jones reeally the best defensive centerfielder, or does he beat out Mike Cameron consistently because he hits more HRs?

It's a fun debate, in any case.

Cameron doesnt win them because he cheats...and he played centerfield in the AL for all those seasons with Spiderman to go up against....(Torii Hunter)

And to Ivan the Great...name one other catcher that has the same creditials year in and year out in the game....you cant name one....benjie and brad are not even in the same league as Ivan.....

that was the worst arguement ever....but I will agree with you on Omar, I used to love watching the Indians teams in the late 90's just for his play...

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7394028?MSNHPHMA

[Dan Wishengrad]

Will,

I've watched both Chavez and Beltre extensively over the past five years. Chavez is a very good defensive third baseman -- I am NOT contesting that. But I'll stick with my opinion that Beltre is better. AB gets to so many balls that Chavez can't get even close to, and in trying to make plays on same he will undoubtedly commit more errors. He charges better on bunts and makes the barehand play more consistently -- but sometimes throws it errantly. Beltre goes into the shortstop hole with much better range and makes plays on balls Chavez doesn't even try for.
This is why stats for fielding percentage are not always a fair indicator of who is better defensively. Another example of this is Reliever's ERA. There are some guys who enter games and always seem to allow inherited base-runners to score, but the earned run goes to the pitcher who let them reach base in the first place.

Because Chavez is also the more consistent offensive threat he gets the Gold Glove nod every year. Once the perception is out there -- like with Andruw Jones as you noted -- many of the GG voters just stick with the "safe" pick, year after year.

[horn17]

Wow Dan...


Do you have a lot of time on your hands? You might watch WAY TO MUCH baseball.....

[Dan Wishengrad]

LOL Rob, mayhaps I do, mayhaps I do. I enjoy baseball much more than football or basketball, love hockey live but rarely watch it on t.v. -- tough finding it without getting CBUT (Canadian cable) anymore now that I no longer have Comcast. I've also been a die-hard fantasy baseball player since 1983 --- a decade or more before most people even heard of fantasy sports participation. Because I am serious about it, I do watch alot of baseball pruely for research on players from outside the AL West. I only went to one game this year at Safeco, and the Angels and Lackey shut out my Mariners. So I decided I was definitely jinxing the local boys and would stick to watching them on the tube.

It's always been a shame, I believe, that my two favorite team sports take place in the same season. But until I start getting access to daily lacrosse on t.v., I'll stick to watching alot of baseball from March through October.

PS I work on Sundays and Monday nights so rarely get to watch the NFL.