How Much Time?

[sohotrightnow]

I have no idea why we are even considering the Church's view on abortion. How did this even come into play? Anwyays, here are a few sites that say the Church does not mention the word "abortion" and others that say that abortion is implied.

http://ffrf.org/nontracts/abortion.php
http://www.abortionfacts.com/abortion/bible.asp

As far as age goes, most abortions are performed on >25 year olds, according to these stats.

http://www.abortiontv.com/Misc/AbortionStatistics.htm

[BucLax13]

Here is an interesting argument

The mother is the sole care provider for a child. Since she makes up what medical procedures a child can have up until the age they are an adult i.e. tonsil removal, braces etc. The child doesn't have any other inalienable rights (supreme court holds that up all the time, no freedom of speech etc. ....) Why can't the mother make the decision that it should not need to be connected to her placenta? What if she really believes that it is in the childs best interest not to be connected to the placenta?

We allow individuals under certain religious beliefs (christian science) who don't believe in very necessary medical procedures (i.e. kid has cancer, parent are CS, they don't believe in medical procedures, kid doesn't get care, parents pray for child, child dies) We don't consider that murder. We don't cross inalienable right lines in that instance, why would we cross the right of the mother to live over the right of a baby/fetus to live. We don't condemn acts of self-defence as a violating the attackers "right to live." We don't consider individuals who drink during pregnancy assault. Why not just let the mother change religions to IDWAFATMU religion (I don't want a fetus attached to my uterus).

Or maybe we shouldn't be looking to government to solve this problem.

[Jana]

I have great difficulty swallowing the argument that any semblance of a fetus is a human being, or even alive. Potential for life is not a life. (

Every sperm is sacred....

[BB]

I don't really have an answer to the qustion. I would support a punishment if we did make it law. But it isn't and I don't really know what a fair punishment would be. I would need to know if we indeed decided it was a life we were taking, if it was I would agree then that prison would be a fair punishment.

IN response to not every sexual act being planned. Fine that is true. But unless you are camping in some wilderness, access to the morning after pill is available to make up for your "unplanned sex" (I always plan on it just doesn't always work out) Kind of like a "whoops a daisies" pill.

[laxfan25]

Interesting study related to this topic;
Abortion rates same whether legal or not;
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21255186/?GT1=10533

“The legal status of abortion has never dissuaded women and couples, who, for whatever reason, seek to end pregnancy,” Beth Fredrick of the International Women’s Health Coalition in the U.S. said in an accompanying commentary.

Maternal mortality
Abortion accounts for 13 percent of maternal mortality worldwide. About 70,000 women die every year from unsafe abortions. An additional 5 million women suffer permanent or temporary injury.

“The continuing high incidence of unsafe abortion in developing countries represents a public health crisis and a human rights atrocity,” Fredrick wrote.

The number of worldwide abortions has dipped from about 46 million in 1995 to just under 42 million in 2003. But there was no change in the rate of unsafe abortions; nearly half the procedures are still performed illegally in potentially dangerous conditions.

[Dan Wishengrad]

Good article, Laxfan, and a valid point. I read recently that South Africa -- which is not even really a "developing country", has the highest per capita rates of abortion and yet the procedure is illegal there.

I believe it is fair to say that almost everyone -- including those of us on the "pro-choice" side of the argument -- wishes there would be fewer abortions actually performed. But what seems hard to fathom in this country is that so many on the anti-abortion side also oppose the teaching of sex education and oppose the distribution of contraceptives. If you honestly seek to end abortions, why not do what you can to prevent the need for a woman to have to make this choice in the first place?

[Beta]

But what seems hard to fathom in this country is that so many on the anti-abortion side also oppose the teaching of sex education and oppose the distribution of contraceptives. If you honestly seek to end abortions, why not do what you can to prevent the need for a woman to have to make this choice in the first place?

Really? I think it's a safe bet to assume that most of the people that are opposed to abortion are also against premarital sex...perhaps they feel by promoting "safe sex" they're promoting sex itself? I dunno. Safe sex = good.

[laxfan25]

Really? I think it's a safe bet to assume that most of the people that are opposed to abortion are also against premarital sex...perhaps they feel by promoting "safe sex" they're promoting sex itself? I dunno. Safe sex = good.

Yep, and it's that "head in the sand" approach that refuses to recognize reality - that people will engage in sex outside of marriage - that prevents effective sex education and contraception from being readily available.
Also, not every couple seeking an abortion is unmarried! There are many, many married couples that find that despite their best efforts the wife has become pregnant, and they have made the personal decision to end the pregnancy.

[peterwho]

Yep, and it's that "head in the sand" approach that refuses to recognize reality - that people will engage in sex outside of marriage - that prevents effective sex education and contraception from being readily available.

There are many, many married couples that find that despite their best efforts the wife has become pregnant, and they have made the personal decision to end the pregnancy.

Yep, and it's that "they're gonna do it anyway, so why should we teach them responsibility and accountability" attitude that is making it really hard to be a good parent, these days.

I'm all for effective sex education. The problem I have is that it usually starts with your perspective and doesn't stress the fact that the best (the only) way to be 100% sure that sex doesn't result in pregnancy is not to have sex in the first place. The efficacy of the various methods needs to be clearly communicated. The next issue is that the emotional aspects are glossed over - especially for boys. There is an underlying assumption that they are just hormone-driven apes (wait, that may be true). The question, "Do you understand what this may mean to your partner?" needs to be addressed. Finally, the whole question of responsibility needs to be dealt with. What are you going to do if your method of choice fails? What impact do you think that will have on your life and the life of your partner? Not to scare them, but to make sure they understand the whole context and not just the act. Go ahead and pass out condoms. Just make sure you tell the parents that's part of the curriculum (in general, not individually, as you pass them out) - don't hide it from the parents or the fact that you are telling the parents from the kids. That way they can either address the issue or chose to take your "head in the sand" approach with their kids.

Why do I recommend this approach? It worked for me. That was "the talk" my parents had with me. It was just an extension of the personal responsibility theme they started communicating to me for as long as I can remember. It's all about choices and choices have consequences - some good, some not so good.

Oh, by the way, you touched a nerve.

I'm one half of the "many, many married couples that find that despite their best efforts the wife has become pregnant, and they have made the personal decision to" add to what we thought was our already complete family. This illustrates my point - my wife could have had her tubes tied, I could have had a vasectomy - we chose another, less effective, method. It was our choice and we knowingly accepted the risk. We "knew" within a week. We had lots of options. We made our choice.

So I believe I am living in a way that is consistent with my answer to the original question.

[Dan Wishengrad]

Watching the GOP debate tonight, they just posed this very question and two of the candidates were asked specifically "how much time" should a woman serve who has an illegal abortion?

Ron Paul's response was, basically, that it's up to the states. Fred Thompson said it's up to the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v Wade, which he will make sure happens if he becomes President and gets to name some Supes himself.

Maybe it's me, but I don't think either guy actually answered the question. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!

[swampthing]

There are many, many married couples that find that despite their best efforts the wife has become pregnant, and they have made the personal decision to end the pregnancy.

I think it's important to see the creation of life as a gift and a blessing from God. We should try to see it as something to celebrate, not bring us burden.

10:26pm My only problem with the abortion debate is that so many Christians move towards hate against people who are pro-choice. God loves you if you've had an abortion or not.