How Much Time?

[BucLax13]

wow, a ton a great points and arguments have been made here

Pro Life and Pro Choice = Rhetoric

You are for or against access to an abortion

I have a premonition that individuals conducting research in this area have a particular outcome they would prefer, and the entity that is supplying the money also has a particular outcome they would prefer or are going to see.

During my confirmation at church (a long time ago) I was exposed to anti-abortion literature and this particular churchs view points on incestual clauses and .... In college I have seen and talked to some pro abortion access protesters. I read some stats on their brochures. I am no expert.

The reasoning of the anti access individuals make more sense to me if you believe that fetuses have life or are living people, and because of that we should protect and and allow the ability to live like ourselves. These anti access people also have the most confusing clauses since individuals conceived through rape and incest are considered not to have a life worth protecting. Yet it is somewhat rare to find politician who doesn't allow for a rape or incest clause. It is also laughable because it is the conservative individuals on the supreme court that won't grant full rights to children from 0-18 years of age. They will selectively protect the "right to life" yet not to free speech or .... whatever, separate point.

My main point would be that I don't know... BUT I believe that this should be an issue that is relegated to the state and preferably the local level. I think communities would best be served to define what they consider is moral and immoral and the consequences to said behavior. It would allow for individuals to live in communities that have their own standards they wish to live by.

Also, I belive that if you believed you have killed something you have, and if you didn't, well you didn't.

Actually I change my mind, I think access to abortion should be allowed... up until the age of 18... meaning you can abort your child up until they are 18... yah sound goods, consider it a trial offer...

"Better get the trash taken out tonight or there will be consequences... dire consequences"

[Danny Hogan]

I believe that this should be an issue that is relegated to the state and preferably the local level. I think communities would best be served to define what they consider is moral and immoral and the consequences to said behavior. It would allow for individuals to live in communities that have their own standards they wish to live by.

and how about taking it a step further and letting individuals decide for themselves?

[Danny Hogan]

(C) If the person engaging in the conduct thereby intentionally kills or attempts to kill the unborn child, that person shall instead of being punished under subparagraph (A), be punished as provided under sections 1111, 1112, and 1113 of this title for intentionally killing or attempting to kill a human being.

So, in theory, someone could attack and attempt to murder a pregnant woman, get charged with two counts of attempted murder, then the mother could abort the baby before it even goes to trial?

[Gvlax]

I'm just nervous for the day when/if roe v wade is over turned and women who want an abortion will have to do it in unsafe conditions like before. Just because you change a law to make something illegal doesn't change everyones view point on it and deter everyone from doing it (otherwise there would be zero crime). I understand the debate and what both sides are saying but when you stop to think that women are going to get an abortion one way or another, do we really want them in the basement somewhere getting it done by someone who is doing it just to make money or in a safe clean environment?

[Tim Whitehead]

If Roe v. Wade ever gets overturned, I'm opening up a for-profit abortion clinic in Canada right near the border. Changing the law wouldn't make people stop having abortions, it would just make them go elsewhere, or do it unsafely in the States.

[Zamboni_Driver]

I'm just nervous for the day when/if roe v wade is over turned and women who want an abortion will have to do it in unsafe conditions like before. Just because you change a law to make something illegal doesn't change everyones view point on it and deter everyone from doing it (otherwise there would be zero crime). I understand the debate and what both sides are saying but when you stop to think that women are going to get an abortion one way or another, do we really want them in the basement somewhere getting it done by someone who is doing it just to make money or in a safe clean environment?

Again, under the hypothetical that Roe v Wade is overturned, the law would still allow exceptions for rape and incest. A woman who had an un-expected pregnancy would simply have to enter a clinic and claim she was raped several month ago and was afraid to go to the police. She would have to be allow to have the abortion since the time it would take for the police to investigate the crime would go passed the acceptable dates for performing an abortion.

Such move wouldn't force pregnant women to canada or some illegal clinic, it would just force them to make false claims. As a result, rape numbers will climb and laws will be passed to make it illegal to claim rape for the purposes of getting an abortion. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who tries to bring a woman in on that charge - what if you were ever wrong....??

[StrykerFSU]

It's my understanding that repealing Roe v. Wade would not outlaw abortion but rather make it an issue for the voters of the respective states to decide. I'm absolutely no expert but I have heard some say that Roe v. Wade is actually a very poor decision in legal terms.

I strongly urge those who think abortion to be a crime to take a few minutes and really think about walking in a pregnant woman's shoes...or for the majority of posters here, think back to being a 20 year old college kid when your "girlfriend" says she's pregnant. Yes, in fantasy land lots of girls are willing to carry babies to full term and then hand them over to strangers who can't have kids of their own but here in the real world that is a little more unlikely. Attitudes change when it's your A$$ in the sling. That said, abortion is not some get out of pregnancy free card and has lasting emotional and psychological ramifications for both parties involved.

The debate on abortion is far more nuanced than anit- or pro-. There are a host of issues of varying importance to different people.

[Beta]

I just think that if guys got pregnant abortions would be available at the local Med Station, and it is unfair for the males in society to take control over womens' bodies. I think it is also hypocritical to not allow easy access to the morning-after pill. It is a private decision, one between a woman an her doctor.

So if a man/woman wants to kill themselves it's OK because it's their body?

It's not that big a step to telling the bitches they've gotta wear a burkah! (Sarcasm/hyperbole intended).

Are you implying that Islam has total control of their women?

[Gvlax]

I'm just nervous for the day when/if roe v wade is over turned and women who want an abortion will have to do it in unsafe conditions like before. Just because you change a law to make something illegal doesn't change everyones view point on it and deter everyone from doing it (otherwise there would be zero crime). I understand the debate and what both sides are saying but when you stop to think that women are going to get an abortion one way or another, do we really want them in the basement somewhere getting it done by someone who is doing it just to make money or in a safe clean environment?

Again, under the hypothetical that Roe v Wade is overturned, the law would still allow exceptions for rape and incest. A woman who had an un-expected pregnancy would simply have to enter a clinic and claim she was raped several month ago and was afraid to go to the police. She would have to be allow to have the abortion since the time it would take for the police to investigate the crime would go passed the acceptable dates for performing an abortion.

Such move wouldn't force pregnant women to canada or some illegal clinic, it would just force them to make false claims. As a result, rape numbers will climb and laws will be passed to make it illegal to claim rape for the purposes of getting an abortion. I wouldn't want to be the prosecutor who tries to bring a woman in on that charge - what if you were ever wrong....??

what about the women who don't get rape or not part of incest that want to get an abortion? Do they have to go to canada to get healthy treatment? women shouldnt have to lie to doctors to get healthy safe treatment if they choose to.

[Beta]

I strongly urge those who think abortion to be a crime to take a few minutes and really think about walking in a pregnant woman's shoes...or for the majority of posters here, think back to being a 20 year old college kid when your "girlfriend" says she's pregnant.

That was only a few years ago for some/most of us, and that is indeed something to worry about if you don't use protection (BC, condom, abstinence). But for those of us that played it safe...there was no "stress time" when that time of the month hit and passed.

Yes, in fantasy land lots of girls are willing to carry babies to full term and then hand them over to strangers who can't have kids of their own but here in the real world that is a little more unlikely. Attitudes change when it's your A$$ in the sling.

If it's so easy to just get your future son/daughter messily sucked out of you with a vacuum then why not place the child up for adoption to a family that would actually care about him/her. Why not? Would that make the mother feel bad or something to lose a child? Boo-freaking-hoo. Im pretty sure having an abortion IS losing a child.

That said, abortion is not some get out of pregnancy free card and has lasting emotional and psychological ramifications for both parties involved.

Then what is it? A ticket out of responsibility? How many of us were actually planned? Not all of us. What are the consequences then barring any medical issues? That the woman that got an abortion is going to feel bad? (See: Boo-freakin-hoo). If she's going to feel bad then maybe she 1) Shouldn't have had unsafe sex and/or 2) Had the child and given him/her a chance at life with a family that would care.

Giving society an easy out for a problem isn't going to make people wise up and make the right decisions beforehand.

[Gvlax]

its easy to say how you feel about this topic when 1) you are a man 2) you havent had to deal with this in your direct life. when one of those two categories are met, then I will listen to what you all have to say.

[Beta]

its easy to say how you feel about this topic when 1) you are a man 2) you havent had to deal with this in your direct life. when one of those two categories are met, then I will listen to what you all have to say.

Define #2, because that's a pretty broad generalization to assume that anyone prolife hasn't dealt with it.

[Gvlax]

its easy to say how you feel about this topic when 1) you are a man 2) you havent had to deal with this in your direct life. when one of those two categories are met, then I will listen to what you all have to say.

Define #2, because that's a pretty broad generalization to assume that anyone prolife hasn't dealt with it.

Had a family member, g.f. close friend that is a girl or even a close guy friend who had to deal with abortion. I have seen it first hand and its not fun to watch a family member go through this. She wasnt all smiles going in and out of the clinc, her life has changed for the better but it has taken a long time to come this way. dont sit there and tell me that abortion is ruining lives when i witnessed first hand change a family member for the best.

[Beta]

Had a family member, g.f. close friend that is a girl or even a close guy friend who had to deal with abortion. I have seen it first hand and its not fun to watch a family member go through this. She wasnt all smiles going in and out of the clinc, her life has changed for the better but it has taken a long time to come this way. dont sit there and tell me that abortion is ruining lives when i witnessed first hand change a family member for the best.

Yes I have, on both sides (one having an abortion, and the other having the child). Do I need to get into specifics or is your assumed generalization crushed?

[BucLax13]

Danny individuals would have access to an abortion in my model, but communities could regulate whether or not abortions are performed in their city limits or in their counties. It would be like the dry county concept. More importantly it would move the argument from the federal (cough:full of crap:cough:liars, thieves, charlatans, hypocrites....cough) state(cough less recognized liars:cough) and put it into your city or your county. I have to apologize for my cold. It really kicks in when I am typing.

I don't want to regulate you and I don't want you regulating me.

If you can regulate where individuals "sin" (i.e. prostitutes, liquor, drugs, when you can and can't drink) then just clump it in there with all those other things and have local ordinances.

Some people hate this idea because they derive purpose from controlling other people.