Div B Breaking News: Calvin is out... Southwestern is in!

[DanGenck]

My only question - would the same decision have been made if Calvin had beaten Dayton in the CCLA Championship game? The announcement of the at-large bid wasn't made too long after that game, like the next day.

Excellent question.

[Sonny]

The Calvin lacrosse team was surely honored to get recognized as a contender and receive the offer, but regretfully declined the offer since we would be missing those who scored 73 of our 98 goals, 9 of our 11 starters from conference, and 13 of our 17 upperclassmen. The dates of this year’s postponed tournament where more difficult than ever with exams on the day of the 1st round and quarter finals and our graduation ceremony on championship day. Believe me I questioned each player's commitment and in the end, this was just how it worked out.

<snip>

Step back for a second, this is a team from a school 1/10th the size of UofM, who practice Jan-Mar on a 50'x100' b-ball court, where 17 of the 31 never played lacrosse before college, and a coach who does all he can to help a team for a whopping $99 a week during season. The Calvin lacrosse team has overcome many obstacles to stay competitive, who knows what the future holds, but step back and consider if this is something that is worth beating a team/conference up over. Southwestern, a remarkably successful team from an even smaller school has filled the slot and everything will go on as planned.

In the future, this issue could be addressed by officially asking teams after the final poll is tallied if they intend to attend and waiting to declare the field of teams until each team has accepted. It could be more exciting and climatic for teams to gather waiting by the phone for the big call instead of hitting the refresh button. There would then be a firm deadline to prepare for, between 9&10pm on Sunday night, rather than the anguish we went through of counting bodies on Monday and having to initiate our regrettable pronouncement..

Andy,

No offense.... On second thought, take some offense. All of these "excuses" are completely 100% bogus.

And this from a team that has already attended the first two Div. B Championships (MN and TX) and a person that is one of the biggest Division B proponents and wants a further expansion of the Div. B Bracket.

Although I don't accept it or like it, I could somewhat understand the situation with Salem State last year as a first year MCLA/PCLL team that won the Pioneer League AQ out of nowhere. But I have zero sympathy for one of our more established Div. B teams that has a coach that sits on a conference board and attends most MCLA Board meetings.

2 things:

1. The annoucement on the CCLA tournament moving back one week was made some 5 - 6 weeks ago. You are a member of the CCLA Board!

2. The announcement on the MCLA Tournament moving back one week was officialy made in February.

How are either of these two annoucements new news to you, your team, or anyone else in the MCLA for that matter??

Neither is the final end of year poll annoucement which comes 8 days prior to the start of the tournament each year. The conference champs that have AQ can make their plans, the other bubble teams know that they have to play a waiting game.

Your team has been ranked in the low teens all year long. Guess what? That puts in you contention for at-large berth for the 12-team Div. B tournament should you fail to win the CCLA Div. B Championship.

Did you make the long trip to Mason High School in Ohio expecting to win the CCLA Tournament or not? Honest question.

And even if we accept the fact that you were going to miss a ton of players and last minute airline tickets are expensive, yada, yada, yada. GIVEN all of that - Your team should have declined a bid to the CCLA Championships in Ohio, if they had no intention to make the trip to Dallas.

If anyone wants me to fix their LaxWorld t-shirt, I'll be at the tourney with a Sharpie marker in my pocket ready to make the necessary update.

Nice joke. With 1300 wrong shirts, the local office stores in Plano and Frisco are going to see a run on of Sharpies. I will let you autograph mine at Pizza Hut Park.

[MidwestLaxer]

Wow. This is insane. I don't know what to say. I bet that there are 100 teams out there that would love to be playing lax instead of golf. And $99 a week? How many coaches out there are completely volunteer? From what I've heard this is the first year that UofM payed their coaches. I know that's apples and oranges, but man. I wish I would have had a chance when I was in college to compete in a national tournament. Too bad for those kids on Calvin that are missing out.

Didn't we already see the "graduation" argument in the CCLA forum about Indiana? I woulda skipped my graduation to play in nationals.

What a sad turn of events for the CCLA.

I don't know what I'd do next year if I was a CCLA B team that won the tourney, and then finished just outside the at large spot. At the very least I'd spend an entire year preparing for that Calvin game next year. Sad turn of events if that does happen.

[StrykerFSU]

I am sympathetic to Calvin's situation and feel that giving teams the opportunity to accept or decline invitations would alleviate the problem. This might be distasteful to those who like to think that the MCLA selection process functions in the same world as the NCAA bball or lacrosse does but in reality, the MCLA is a whole different animal.

Everyone's school is on different academic schedules and place different demands on a student's time. For example, it is the first day of the summer semester here at FSU and should the tournament have been this week any player who was taking summer classes would not have been able to attend because the University has a policy of mandatory attendance during the first week of a semester...no show and you are dropped from the class. It is hard to say how many players that might affect but keep in mind that FSU requires every student to take at least one full summer semester of classes to be eligible to graduate so every player would be affected at least once in their college careers. Also, I don't think that all of the schools in the MCLA would be open to allowing students to miss/take proctored exams for a club sport that the university may or may not even know exists. Don't assume that other schools operate the same way that yours does.

I hope that the MCLA continues to grow but let's keep things in perspective. One of the arguments I have heard over the years for the MCLA was that it gave kids a chance to play without the added rigors and pressures of varsity. Well, I played varsity and know first hand what happens when your coach doesn't care that you are late for practice because of chemistry lab. But hey, it was varsity and I didn't have to pay to play. The kids in the MCLA shell out a lot of money and spend a lot of time raising more money, two things not expected at a varsity program, and to say that they should "have found a way" to pay the added expense is unfair and unreasonable. I am sure that the players are as upset about missing the tournament as the old guys ponitficating about their irresponsibility and moaning about incorrect t-shirts.

I know folks are upset but I feel that everyone should try to see it from both sides before they rake a group of kids and their coach over the coals.

[Beta]

Im sure I speak for every graduate out there....when I say that if given the chance...Id drive/hitchhike/walk/segway/canoe to Dallas with 10 guys, sleep in the car and get trounced in 2-3 games than to bail. A division, B division...regardless..once you graduate college...your sports career is done. Whether you realize it or not, once you anchor yourself in a cubicle you'd give anything to have been able to play just one more game, quarter, shift.

The seniors on that team are going to regret (if they don't already) that decision once they throw their gear bags in the closet and it sinks in that the only time they're suiting up again is for summer league. Which doesn't even remotely compare.

(Disclaimer: disregard all above statements for the SELC alumni tourney )

[Andy Sharp]

I started writing this following Bert & Dan's comments, will look to address others later if I see fit

We all know there are unlimited numbers of excuses players and teams make for why they didn't play their best. In this case they knew they would not be able to play at the same competitive level without the team members who could not make the trip. Winning games without one or two starters is feasible, we went 8-1 with two of our starting attackmen out with injuries, but when it gets to the numbers we were left with, only our face-off guy and wing middie remaining, it's hard to rally the troops.

We all have seen how slight a difference in the quality of two teams on a particular day can become a chasm, look at CSU vs Oregon, and after our 8-19 game with Dayton the players' bubble had been burst, they no longer believed they were capable of playing at or near our potential.

As a coach, I find pleasure when my players get to the point where they love the game and all that it's about. I try to grow their love by expanding their knowledge, deepening their respect for those teams who compete at a higher level, and widening their perspective on the lacrosse community. Going to the national tournament is the perfect event for improving all of these aspects.

I believe those 11 who said they'd go would have benefited from at least giving it a shot and making the trip, they are a wonderful group of guys, but then I thought to myself . . . what if we were the next team on the bubble and a team above us showed up with a team even they knew would have a hard time keeping it competitive? Southwestern was only 15 points behind us with 9 of the other voters not even making the time to submit a vote, they might have already been in a rage, hearing our situation would not have helped.



I chose the route that I believe was best for the Calvin Lacrosse program, the MCLA, and the sport I love.

[Gvlax]

I personally believe that an AQ is different then an AL bid. Like Sharp said AQ is something you know about if you win but an AL bid is something that might be given. i believe that the penalty should not be for the whole league but for the individual team. If someone got the AQ and didnt accept it i believe then the whole league should be penalized. But if CCLA B now has to face the consequences that one team brought to the league then GVSU will do what we can do, challenge teams that are in the national ranking. Strong OOC games is all that is going to allow CCLA B teams to get to nationals next year.

What do i know, im just a player who was hoping to get his team to nationals next year and now its more difficult then ever.

[Gvlax]

Although i do agree that a team should know if they can not make it to nationals. Our coach asked us before we went to the CCLA B playoffs if we would be able to go to nationals if we made it. I think all teams need this to be figured out before participating in the conference championship.

Will indiana be penalized for not coming to CCLA playoffs? just wondering what the consequences are for not going to ccla playoffs.

[cjwilhelmi]

Saying that you can't make it during finals is completely bogus. For the last two years it has been finals during Harding's week and they have still made it. It is finals this year for Lindenwood and we're still going. All it takes is a little planning. My senior year at Harding when we knew there was a chance that we might go we went to the Dean of Academics in early March to start planning things out just in case. If ANY team is ranked in the top 13 consistently during the year or feel that they have any shot of winning conference they should have planned for this a long time ago. The change of time was announced in February. There is no excuse saying that just because we have finals we can't go. The same argument goes for financials, if you know that there is a chance, start saving and fundraising. Tell you what, don't go out on either a Friday or Saturday night the entire season. Lets say you spend $50 in bar tabs each night you go out. Oh yea the whole "I go to a religious institution so we don't party" is bull crap as well, I should know. If the season is from Feb through end of April that saves you roughly $600, oh wait, thats your plane ticket plus hotels.

Bottom line is, be proactive with your team. If you think you have a chance of making the tournament at all start getting things taken care of early. There is absolutely no excuse not to go to the big dance. If you feel that there are excuses to make then how bout this for next season - don't play any OOC games, and decline a trip to your conference tournament up front. That way there is no way that you could be looked at as a national contender.

Now with Calvin, the CCLA should lose their AQ for next season. They (Calvin) still represents the conference since they are a CCLA member team. When you travel to play OOC you still represent the conference. Coming to Dallas is no different, you still represent the conference. On that note, all teams who are going - be safe traveling, good luck, represent your conferences with class and lets have a blast its freaking nationals!

For all the B guys who say that you should have the same size tournament as A - don't expect it any time soon. You keep shooting yourself in the foot. And this is coming from a guy who supports B and wants to see positive changes nationally.

[mholtz]

Will indiana be penalized for not coming to CCLA playoffs? just wondering what the consequences are for not going to ccla playoffs.

My unofficial, non-ccla, personal not related to the CCLA opinion is yes. Indiana will most likely have consequences.

[TexOle]

Here are some thoughts from me.

Every team should have the right to decline a national bid with no penalty. This should be done before the conference tournament. If a team says that it cannot make it to the national tournament before they play in their conference then no penalty should be enforced. You still should be allowed to compete for the conference title, but it comes with the understanding that the runner up (possible play in game) goes to the national tournament.

All teams should know at least 14 days in advance that they will be playing in tournament. It is easier to find travel deals that way.

Here is some final advice. If you are affiliated with a religious denomination talk to local churches for accomodations. Also talk with school alumni in the area. Those two groups can help find places to stay and might help you out in other areas. Talking with the school administration can also be helpful for these events.

[Jolly Roger]

You still should be allowed to compete for the conference title, but it comes with the understanding that the runner up (possible play in game) goes to the national tournament.

A conference champion is the only team able to accept an AQ. If you're not going to accept an AL/AQ, you should choose not to compete in the conference tourney.

[Kyle Berggren]

Every team should have the right to decline a national bid with no penalty. This should be done before the conference tournament. If a team says that it cannot make it to the national tournament before they play in their conference then no penalty should be enforced. You still should be allowed to compete for the conference title, but it comes with the understanding that the runner up (possible play in game) goes to the national tournament..

So what happens if Teams 1 & 2 decide they won't make the trip? & they end up in their conference championship game... do we send team 3 or 4 by goal differential? It's stupid, if you don't want to go, won't make the sacrifice to go, you might as well be an A team playing down. We should exclude you from the polls from day 1, & quite frankly, at that point, teams that do care should not be forced to "compete" against you. To you, the game is just a single game, to others, it's a build up to Nationals. They have nothing to gain by playing you they couldn't get from playing someone else looking to make the trip to Nationals.

We're in the MCLA for a reason & while I expect scarce problems like this to occur from time to time, it's now been 2 years in a row. While I sympathize with Calvin & it's staff, I hope the punishment is harsh. It should be a deterrent to other teams, not a coddling extravaganza. This was the #11 ranked team in the country declining it's trip to Nationals at the last minute. I don't care if teams are student funded, school funded, church funded, or not funded, this wouldn't be acceptable in any other league (and it shouldn't). The #11 team! A team that should be an example to us all. This wasn't a Cinderella story 2-6 team that made a run in the playoffs to get an AQ never receiving a single vote all season. This is a team that wanted to compete at the highest level & was being recognized for it all season.

[Hi-Line Lax]

In 2005 when I was student coaching our team here at Montana we were coming off a 1 win season the year before and never expected to be conference champions... but we won and found a way to make it to Nationals. It wasn't easy (and honestly some of the bill has yet to be paid) but we still made it happen... there are no excuses.

I really can't understand how a program like Calvin could do this... you guys have been there before, why did you not think it would be the same this year? I enter every season now in anticipation of competing in the National tournament and make sure early in the year that our kids, their teachers, the administration, the parents, and everybody else are prepared for that event if it comes.

I feel bad for the seniors on Calvin's team, but agree with Kyle that their punishment should be severe. I thought our league took care of this last year in dealing with Salem St... that should have been the end.

[nhoskins]

Also, I don't think that all of the schools in the MCLA would be open to allowing students to miss/take proctored exams for a club sport that the university may or may not even know exists. Don't assume that other schools operate the same way that yours does.

I don't buy this at all. Having been on the administrative side of an MCLA team, it's the responsibility of the team to get their name out their and express the significance of a national tournament bid and also, simply that your club team exists. If you're content to exist as an island and refuse to foster a good relationship with your school's administration, then why would they make any effort to support you?

Simple weekly visits to school officials, or tossing them a lacrosse golf shirt, go a long way towards getting access to things such as road-proctored exams, postponed finals and so-on.

"Don't assume that your school doesn't operate the same way other schools do."