One Team Dominance

[horn17]

I think we are beating a dead-horse here, so I'll make this my last post.

Please dont hit the animals Riss....unless you mean Fackert....

[TexOle]

Getting back to the topic at hand I think you have to look at the commitment made by the teams. There are a ton of great coaches in the state of MN, but how many teams are willing to put forth the work to find a coach? How many teams are willing to give up breaks for lacrosse? It is not just coaching, but it is having people dedicated to improving their team. I see that from certain teams. They are the teams that are getting better.

[DanGenck]

Tex (and some others) are correct. Building a championship program takes leadership and sacrifice. Do you have leaders who are willing to do the right things no matter what? Do you have players who are willing to sacrifice for those leaders?

Recruiting, money, fields, etc. are all icing on the cake. Do you have leaders? Do you have people who will follow those leaders? If you do, you can always manage.

I remember in 2003, we lost to the U of M by a score of 14-8 but it was arguably a turning point for St. John's Lacrosse. I think the game was 9-8 to start the 4th quarter, we even killed a 3 man down penalty at one point, and after the game every guy on the team looked at each other and said, "We lost, but we can do great things together."

It certainly wasn't recruiting, money, nice playing fields, etc. that got us there. It was our leadership, sacrifice, and love for each other. Those three things turned the tide for our program.

Coach Hellenack helped too

[Gopherlax29]

You guys are close to hitting the nailon the head with recruiting reasons but here it really is...

People go to school for various reasons. Many players come to the U but do'nt play. In a sport you do not get paid to play (schollys) you have to be committed. If UMD is getting players that want to play SWEET! and you won't see many of them quit. I went to the U, was asked to play on the team, won some games then quit. Look who was at the U that did not play...Carney and Sorensen (EP all State), Haugen, Myself, Van Wagner (all-state Jefferson) I mean I could go on and on, but without the consitant WANT to play it gets tough to when there is no school help. I hated practicing at 11:30. Now I am not saying I am the reason the U is going down a bit since winning in 2005 (and whoever called it lucky and not high school stars...come on riss don't agree to that (onken, Kestler, Haugen, myself...) but I bet if I didnt quit Haugen is still playing. thats 2 4 year starting attackmen, and probably a better team, not necessarily better then UMD so don't get your panties in a bunble...

Either way, talent is there, players aren't plain and simple.

[Riss]

I'll concede that Onken and Kestler were very talented.

[mavlax23]

I think the keys for teams like UMD, and possibly the U of M would be; number one, that they have program prestige and can get a number of top high school players to commit to their lacrosse program early (even if they aren't recruited), and those players commit to riding the bench (unless they are winning by a large margin) for at least a few years, because UMD is established as the best team in the Midwest. Number two, would be that the level of talent coming in to those programs is just simply at a higher level then the rest of the league, because of the reasons I stated above. This allows them to focus on things in practice that some of the lower level teams can't because, simply, half the team cannot consistently throw and catch. It makes it hard to compete with the top contenders if you spend a large majority of the year teaching people proper mechanics of throwing a lacrosse ball. Also, if you look at the players coming in to UMD I would bet that all of them have multiple years of high school experience, then ride the bench and develop for another few years before getting there shot as Juniors and Seniors. Where programs like mine (Mankato) get maybe one or two rookies who have any lacrosse experience at all, let alone multiple years. I am not trying to knock UMD or U of M, in fact I am a big fan and hope some day the rest of the league can raise the level of play as a whole and be one of the top leagues in the nation. I think we have a good start with UMD, U of M, St. Johns and St. Thomas, it will just take time before the talent level has to level out and quality players will start spilling over into the rest of the league due to the fact that lacrosse, as a whole, is growing every year. And there just isn't enough room on the roster at UMD or U of M for all the lacrosse players coming up from high school.

[FlyingDutchmen]

Probably helps too that you need around a 12 on your ACT to get into UMD....

It would be very hard for a school like carelton to recruit because not very many people are going to meet their academic standards

[Jay Zabel]

Boy, it's got a lot tougher since I left

[Champ]

Probably helps too that you need around a 12 on your ACT to get into UMD....

I was rejected the first time I applied there with a 24 on my ACT's.

[Riss]

Probably helps too that you need around a 12 on your ACT to get into UMD....

I was rejected the first time I applied there with a 24 on my ACT's.

Thats cause they found your last name to be cocky...and that you don't like puppies.

[Jolly Roger]

Probably helps too that you need around a 12 on your ACT to get into UMD....

I was rejected the first time I applied there with a 24 on my ACT's.

Or maybe it was a female admissions person...

[umdulax1]

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[Sandwich8]

In my opinion the bottom line for attracting students academically is this;

There are two nationally renowed University's in the area (in all aspects and with graduate amd under-graduate programs of nationally leading caliber) the UMN-TC and UW-Madison. Obviously Madison is irrelevant, that leaves the U of M.

The rest fall into two categories 'regional public' and private. Say what you will about the private school's academics, but the undisputable fact is...they are expensive. The 'regional publics' all have their pluses and minuses and students should choose based on the academic program best suited to their future.

The reality is, you are 18 years old and you like two things women and lacrosse...women are every where and lacrosse at UMD has an established program that wins.

Thanks for listening to a UMD grad who has done nothing with his life.

[TexOle]

Carleton does have the advantage of attracting a different population of students. Their name is known throughout the country, and they do get quite a few students from the East Coast. This will help their team. If Macalester ever finds a lacrosse team they will be in the same position. Two great schools academically that can attract potential players from all over the country. St. Olaf is starting to grow in its national reputation. They have gotten some players from Colorado and also out East. The problem with Carleton and St. Olaf is lacrosse does not play a major role on campus. Carleton has amazing academics. St. Olaf is another top notch school academically that also has a music program that is second to none. In fact with the new science center and increased commitments to the science and the MSCS departments the academics will increase even more, and you will probably see a little bit different student body at St. Olaf. St. Olaf could drop its athletic program (has been discussed in the past) and not get too many protesters. St. Olaf is not going to drop athletics. If you were to drop the athletic programs at SJU and UST then the student bodies and alumni would riot. Every school has a different atmosphere, and that has to be taken in to consideration when you look at sports on campus.

[fischman]

There has never been talk of dropping the athletic program at St Olaf. There was talk of dropping hockey and skiing a couple years back....

In fact, St Olaf has one of the stronger athletic programs in the MIAC with enormous inter mural and club participation. I really don't see how the acedemic rigor of a school has anything to do with athletic achievement. Johns Hopkins??? Duke??? Virginia??? Princeton??? I think they might be pretty good at lacrosse.