Regent Law School

[DanGenck]

the equivalent of "Phoenix University of Law"

Really? How did you determine that?

See above: USNWR ranks it as a tie for the WORST ABA-accredited law school in the country.

While you may accuse this administration of cronyism,

That point has already been beaten to death and is hardly worth mentioning.

I don't think that the separation of church and state argument holds much weight here. It is also important to note that this idea is a metaphor for religious freedom and not a law or principle. The idea of separating church and state stems from Thomas Jefferson and the freedom of religion (not freedom from religion),

... no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

Your read of the first amendment is plain wrong. See Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet:

Souter concluded that "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion."

By offering prefernce to a bottom of the barrell law school funded and established by secular televangelists, the heat is on the Bush administration to try to qualify these 150 attorneys in high profile positions to take jobs over the slew of more qualified candidates. The only two distinguishable traits that Regent University has is its history of infusing secular ideology into the law and its terrible academic reputation. Please address this, the point at hand.

Given that our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, I doubt that the Founding Fathers would have thought attendance at a law school with strong Christian principles should disqualify you from government service. Most of our laws come out of this religious tradition so wouldn't a practicing Christian arguably have good understanding of their core principles?

Our country was founded on SOME principles that REFLECT Judeo-Christian values. Having knowledge of these values, in my humble opinion, would have no effect on the understanding of the law as it has evolved to what it is today. Tell me why Notre Dame, Boston College, etc., do not teach Sin as a part of their curriculum? I find it strange that you seem to have completely ignored that part of my post.

I guess you would also be against Mitt Romney for President because he is a Mormon. Further, how does appointing a Christian violate even the bastardized definition of the separation of church and state?

How could you possibly extrapolate these stances from my post?

I used to go to a YMCA sailing camp in NC every summer, can I never hold public office because we had devotionals every night?

It's not the YMCA sailing camp that scares me about you.

Dear Joe-

This post was excellent. If I ever get arrested, you will be the first person I call for help. Actually, Rob Graff will be first... but you will be a close second.

[StrykerFSU]

Joe, my point in bringing up the blogs is that this whole affair smacks very much of partisan politics. And yes, The Boston Globe is not a blog but I don't think they could ever be mistaken for friends of the Bush's either. I personally haven't seen this story get much attention and a Google search didn't bring anything but the original Globe article and some left-leaning blogs posting the same links and quoting each other nearly verbatim. If this is truly such an important issue, and not the politically motivated attack that it appears, then I am sure the Democratic Congress with their hard won subpoena powers will be ready to pounce.

I also think it will be a long row to hoe trying to prove that the hirings were religiously motivated. While the school is a Christian school, you would have to prove that all of the appointees were in fact Evangelicals and they were chosen over more qualified candidates based clearly on that fact alone. Not hard to print on the front page but I am sure it would be tougher to prove in a legal setting. I work on ships and I never took any pre-law classes so I am sure you will point where I'm wrong on that question.

But before any of that, I think the opponents of these hirings need to be more specific in exactly what we are talking about. Regurgitating hysterical screams about 150 "high-ranking" goverment officials without any identification of who these Evangelical boogeymen/women are is not going to cut it. For all of the hard hitting evidence I have found we could be talking about 150 interns over the past 6 years spread around the country or it could be a coven of 150 Evangelicals plotting a religious coup, who's to know? I'd also like to see the hiring practices of some past Presidents just so we can make some comparisons. Maybe I'm being premature and I can look forward to a full expose in The Economist next week but until I see some clear evidence with names and positions I am going to keep this issue on the back burner.

It's ironic that in the midst of this exchange the fact I agree with you in principle, though not about the church and state question, somehow got lost. But I guess calling the hirings unwise, irresponsible, and pointing out what I thought to be valid objections were not strong enough language for the Bash Bush crowd. That must have been what scares you about me.

[Rob Graff]

Joe:

When you are done with Law school, contact me.

Persuasive writing, effective use of facts, avoiding being drawn off your point to your opponents straw man arguments are all skills that I seek in hiring at my firm.

And skills I doubt are taught at Regent. I don't think they have the time if they waste the first 10 minutes of ConLaw as you describe above.

Rob

[Sonny]

Sonny would send his resume to Coach Graff's law firm, but he is too busy working on CollegeLAX to study for his LSAT's.

[Joe Oakland]

Cliff,

First and foremost, the reason you are seeing the same things repeated verbatim is that they are mostly from the University's own website. The information that is undisputed and even proliferated by the school is frightening.

Second, the whole point of my post, which I have reiterated throughout this thread, is that I want answers. Your recent point that a lot is unknown about these claims and we need more information, is well taken, because I made that point already. Where we differ is precisely who is responsible for providing these answers. If you want to talk about that, fine.

Further, I understand this news strykes a chord with your political views, but they really have no logical relevance here.

Your logical flaw is that you are relentlessly presenting what amounts to an ad hominem attack, meaning "at the person". In this instance, you are arguing against my point because it "smacks very much of partisan politics." The logical problem is that even if this was the case, it does not attack the point at hand; it is very well possible that a left wing blogger can stand to benefit from an argument and still be right.

I assure you there are NO partisan politics being played here. At this time in our republic's history, I have no political party representation to speak of. Just a love and respect for our country, and in this case, the judiciary branch.

Please get back to the point if you want to continue this conversation. Contact Alex Smith, I hear that is his specialty?

Stealing the flag in which you wrap yourself,
Joe

[KnoxVegas]

Go third person, why don't you Sonny?

[Rob Graff]

And Sonny probably enjoys the weather in Ga more than he would the weather in MPLS.

Whereas someone from Det/Chi could easily be persuaded that MPLS' seasons are not that bad.....

[Joe Oakland]

Joe:

When you are done with Law school, contact me.

Persuasive writing, effective use of facts, avoiding being drawn off your point to your opponents straw man arguments are all skills that I seek in hiring at my firm.

And skills I doubt are taught at Regent. I don't think they have the time if they waste the first 10 minutes of ConLaw as you describe above.

Rob

Rob,

Thank you for the compliment.

I will definitely be giving you a call in 3 years.

Joe

[onpoint]

Please get back to the point if you want to continue this conversation. Contact Alex Smith, I hear that is his specialty?

Yes, please contact my agent for any forum moderation requests. There may be a lead time of several days.

Currently off point.

[Hackalicious]

Given that our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles

The first treaty every signed by the US in 1796 explicitly says "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".

While you're free to make any baseless assertion you want, I'll take the side of the historical document signed by John Adams.

[scooter]

Joe:

When you are done with Law school, contact me.

Persuasive writing, effective use of facts, avoiding being drawn off your point to your opponents straw man arguments are all skills that I seek in hiring at my firm.

Who knew the forums could be used as a networking device? Any Fortune 100 executives cruising around, I'm graduate next May

[yourmom]

Joe:

When you are done with Law school, contact me.

Persuasive writing, effective use of facts, avoiding being drawn off your point to your opponents straw man arguments are all skills that I seek in hiring at my firm.

Who knew the forums could be used as a networking device? Any Fortune 100 executives cruising around, I'm graduate next May

Honestly I'm surprised it isn't being used more as a networking device. Anyone who knows of some openings, please let me know, and I will send a resume!

[Sonny]

And Sonny probably enjoys the weather in Ga more than he would the weather in MPLS.

72 and blue skies all week long right now.....

[DanGenck]

And Sonny probably enjoys the weather in Ga more than he would the weather in MPLS.

72 and blue skies all week long right now.....

Perfect lacrosse weather... (sigh)

[sohotrightnow]

I'm graduate next May

There may be a reason why you have not received an offer.