Historic 2008 Election?

[Beta]

Discussing President Bush's drug and alcohol use isn't slander Cliff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._ ... ontroversy

He is in the public eye, and if it's relevant to the discussion about Senator Obama, then it's relevant to the discussion about President Bush, isn't it?

It was a really big deal with President Clinton too. I respect Obama more for coming out and saying "Yeah I did", as opposed to saying "I haven't done coke in 348 months!" as W did. If W hasn't ever done it, I'd imagine he'd just say it instead of being vague/sketchy.

Laura Bush: Have you been faithful to me?
W Bush: Baby Ive been faithful to you since 1984.
Laura Bush: We've been married since 1977.
W Bush: Exactly, Ive been faithful since 1984.

You're telling me he wouldn't be sleeping on the John F Kennedy couch that night???

[Sonny]

Adam,

You keep inserting other people into the equation like me and Flip. Last time I checked, neither of us were running for President of the US - so I don't how or why that would be pertinent to the discussion of Obama's past admitted drug use or W's alleged drug use.

Furthermore, you can continue to bash W all you want -- but he can't run for President any more. This is a discussion of the 2008 election & those candidates.

Just because he admitted using Coke in his youthful days doesn't mean he gets a free pass on it now, especially when running for the most powerful leader in the free world. We can and should expect better as our President.

[sohotrightnow]

Sonny, just admit that you have a problem with W's use of drugs and things will be all good. Until you do so, expect people to disagree with your unwarranted attacks on Obama's previous drug use.

[StrykerFSU]

Accusing the President of using cocaine with absolutely no proof is slanderous.

There wasn't any evidence sighting Senator Obama was schooled in a Madrass, but that didn't stop Sonny and the Fox News crowd from repeatedly sighting it as fact. Yesterday's story is more evidence of how the Republican party and right wing media outlets like InsightMag are part of the same organization. An organization that actively seeks to weaken the power of the fourth estate, in order to maintain the status quo.

I didn't even mention this issue. But you aren't arguing that the Democratic Party is above such alleged activities, are you?

I only referred to Obama's drug use as an allegation because I did not read the book and thus don't have all the facts. I do stand by my statement and I don't think it reflect on any kind of discrimination on the part of Iowans (as I stated I only mentioned them in name because they are the first caucus) or myself towards Muslims. My opinion is that traditional voters will be turned off by someone who has admitted to using drugs, is that far fetched? The fact that he is a black man is not relevant but I'm sure many in this country would find a Muslim background relevant given the state of the world. To try and twist my statement into some sort of statement of racial or religious discrimination is disingenuous.

As for his drug use, it has been asked before but I will ask it again, shouldn't we have higher expectations of public leaders? Admitting to breaking the law does not mean you are now exempt from judgment. Not to put too fine a point on it but how can parents tell their kids not to use drugs if the President has admitted to abusing them?

Adam, it is clear that you are a strong supporter of Sen. Obama and I commend you for your enthusiasm. There is a lot of time to go still before things even get serious and I'm sure there are many issues to sort through but I think that this is a damaging blow...er, hit...uh, bad for the Senator.

[sohotrightnow]

I find it appalling that you do not appreciate his honesty and candor. The man has admitted to his transgressions. He does not deserve a free pass, but how many people in DC would have the cajones to admit as such? How about zero? You can try to dissuade me by saying that you don't find him appealing because of his drug use, but I think the real reason is because you don't like the idea of an intelligent, black Muslim man running this country. You'd prefer a white drunken frat boy (not one of those uppity New Englander types...a man of the people!) who does not have command of the English language. That is sad.

[Sonny]

Sonny, just admit that you have a problem with W's use of drugs and things will be all good. Until you do so, expect people to disagree with your unwarranted attacks on Obama's previous drug use.

How exactly is it an unwarranted "attack" if it is true?

[sohotrightnow]

It is unwarranted because you don't excoriate Bush for not only lying about his drug use, but for the fact that he did it!!! How do you not see the double standard?

"Uh, I didn't do it after 1974..."

Hey Dubya, if you did it before 1974, you did it.

[Sonny]

If you want to start a thread about Bush's alleged past drug use, feel free.

This is a topic about the 2008 election and the candidates.

[sohotrightnow]

Well played sir. At least I received an admission of guilt from you on behalf of GW.

[StrykerFSU]

Why so angry?

But since you are so firmly entrenched in my brain and have such a keen understanding of my thought process, could you please remind me to pay my mortgage later? I'm always forgetting.

I do, in fact, appreciate his candor but as I have said time and again that does not place him above the judgment of the American people. You may not agree with that but your opinion does not make it an invalid point. Your point is indicative of the culture of moral relativism that exists on the Left where nothing is truly wrong and everything can be explained away. Many in America do not agree with that outlook.

Oh, and I prefer "Fraternity" to "Frat".

[sohotrightnow]

Not angry bro. I didn't say it was right what he did, nor did I say he is "exempt." I find it refreshing, however, that he didn't give BS answers like Clinton and Bush did. How am I spinning this incorrectly or explaining it away? He is cut from a different cloth and is not part of the Good Ole Boy network that exists in both parties. Don't you think the country needs somebody like this? Not necessarily Obama, but somebody who does not resemble the same clones that each party trots out every election?

[Campbell]

Not angry bro. I didn't say it was right what he did, nor did I say he is "exempt." I find it refreshing, however, that he didn't give BS answers like Clinton and Bush did. How am I spinning this incorrectly or explaining it away? He is cut from a different cloth and is not part of the Good Ole Boy network that exists in both parties. Don't you think the country needs somebody like this? Not necessarily Obama, but somebody who does not resemble the same clones that each party trots out every election?

Bill O'Reilly makes this same point in one of his books, that the leaders of our country are politicians and not necessarily leaders, or "men of the people."

Personally, I think Obama is going to have a harder time with the election because he is black, and so will Clinton because she is a woman. As absurd as it all might be, I don't think middle America is ready for black president or a woman president.

[Adam Gamradt]

President Bush's substance abuse problems are relevant, if only to point out the flawed reasoning that you've used in this discussion.

In fact, you were the first person to mentioned W's drug use.

"P.S. I can't wait to see how the press treats his previous "drug" use. I'm sure they will pursue those story lines as aggressively as they did for W."

I guess I'll have to ask the moderator to ask the moderator to stay on topic.

And Cliff, as someone who's studied my Sartre, I reject the notion that moral relativisim is inherently evil.

That's a pretty good philosophy joke right there.

[Beta]

Obama is Christian and attends Church of Christ.

[Zeuslax]

This is a little off topic, but I hate the label "Middle America". Where is this? Is it actually in the middle of the country as many would like us to believe? We need to talk about populated America and rural America....even cities under a certain size would be more pertinent.


As for the 2008 election, It's going to be tough for Hillary. She's just to surgical and doesn't have the personality that I think the country is looking for right now. The media has labeled her as decisive which isn't helping either......ohh that left wing media. However, I agree with many on here that Obama brings something else to the table. What this country is terribly lacking are negotiators and communicators. He can certainly do this without the political double talk.