Boston University group offers white scholarship

[sohotrightnow]

I was brought up by my parents to treat everyone as equals, and thats what I do. So it really busts my chops when this kind of stuff happens on either side of the fence.

Give me a break! You are white. If you are poor, at least you are a poor white person and not a poor minority. You still are not viewed as inferior as a poor minority or a rich minority at that. You have every single advantage known to mankind and if you don't take advantage of that then that is your own fault.

[DanGenck]

Remember that regardless of what you feel about affirmative action, and other related programs, the idea is to bring non-european racial groups up to equal footing as whites, which fundamentally is an admirable idea. Considering that whites in America had a head start from 1776 until the 1950's... what other choices existed other than affirmative action? The best road was taken given a terrible circumstance...

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not putting all of my votes in affirmative action. I'd rather see decent investment in education and a basic ideological shift in our culture from "Education is important to get a job" to "Education is important because educational exploration and growth are important". If we had that foundation in this country, we wouldn't need affirmative action.

[StrykerFSU]

I don't have any problem with private groups setting up racially segregated scholarships, it is their money so they can do what they want. That is what the College Republicans at BU have done. I do have a problem with government money going to benefit a small segment of students based on their race.

To me affirmative action in hiring and college admissions is a different issue. Remember that when a marginally qualified under privileged minority takes a place at a university they may be taking a spot from a qualified poor white woman or poor white man. Is that fair? "At least their white"??? I find that to be a very weak argument.

And, for the record, I feel no guilt for being born a white male. When are the sons going to stop being punished for the sins of the father?

[Jester]

Um, how about we pay for the sins of the father for the same amount of time that they were committed? If by that time the situation hasn't evened out, then you can wash your hands of it.

Taking the most limited view - The Founding of National Government to enactment of the 13th Amendment in 1865, (110 years)then white people are free and clear after 1975.

That would, of course, suggest that segregation, the poll tax, police dogs, lynchings, and fire hoses were no big deal. We can be generous, and say that discrimination ended completely with the Civil Rights Act in 1964. So I'm thinking that we've still got until about the year 2152 or so before we no longer owe on the deal.

[Gvlax]

why do we still have to fill out race and gender on apps? Im sure some jobs out there require certain gender but how about race? I am a big fan of getting applications to get rid of the race section.

[DanGenck]

I don't have any problem with private groups setting up racially segregated scholarships, it is their money so they can do what they want. That is what the College Republicans at BU have done. I do have a problem with government money going to benefit a small segment of students based on their race.

To me affirmative action in hiring and college admissions is a different issue. Remember that when a marginally qualified under privileged minority takes a place at a university they may be taking a spot from a qualified poor white woman or poor white man. Is that fair? "At least their white"??? I find that to be a very weak argument.

And, for the record, I feel no guilt for being born a white male. When are the sons going to stop being punished for the sins of the father?

It's not about you being punished, it's about them being given some help.

[Beta]

Um, how about we pay for the sins of the father for the same amount of time that they were committed? If by that time the situation hasn't evened out, then you can wash your hands of it.

I dont owe anyone, anything. I wasn't alive back then, I didnt commit those crimes, or any crimes against my fellow man. I treat everyone equally, with respect and in no regards to color, religion, sexuality or gender, the only thing that differentiates people to me is their ignorance. The longer people go around saying to people "you are owed something for something that may or may not have happened to your ancestors, from the white man" the longer there will be tensions.

On another note, can someone please break down for me how having a different skin tone in this country means that you have the world handed to you? Ive worked my tail off to get where I am...and for someone to say "it's because you have light skin, is the main reason" makes me sick to my stomach and I am absolutely offended. I spent X amount of hours working a crappy job, X hours studying in a library till all hours, X times taking hard tests and graduating alongside X many different-looking people. Only to go and get hired by my boss who isn't white, under the recommendation of his boss who isnt white either. Did someone tell them, "Hire the white guy because he's white"? Was there a "whites-only-path" to the Easy Button somewhere? I must have not gotten that memo.

Does anyone wanna know what sounds racist...sitting around talking about how a certain skin color is in charge, and how that skin color is the root of all evil and "inequality" in this country. Yes, it is racist against white people to say that. And by saying that, makes them a racist person by definition.

[laxfan25]

what the same time you can make the argument that it has become much more difficult for a white male to even get his foot in the door now.

But you would need to back that assertion up with facts to win the argument, not just a feeling that it seems to be this way. Any numbers on the percentage of white vs. minority graduates that are gaining employment, and at what levels? There is a large amount of "who you know" that goes into hiring. While most applications ask about racial classification, that is NOT the main criteria used in hiring decisions.

I still say the white male is in no danger of extinction in the next millenium - but let their position of privilege be threatened in any way (real or imagined) and the howls of protest are set off. If they ever had to suffer the REAL acts of discrimination faced by minorities every day - you can bet that real corrective action would take place. I also have said that if men ever got pregnant there would be no discussion about abortion rights.

[Jester]

Beta,

It is a question of you doing anything wrong and furthering the cycle, its about doing something right and reversing it.

No one is going to say to didn't work your tail off to get where you are. Unless you came from a trust fund, and even then, the sweat that went into making you what you are is real. However, there still stands the reality that a lot of other people can put in the same or more sweat and get nowhere.

It's not your fault that you have an unearned advantage, its part of the socialization we go through. You have made the most of your position, and your work is to be commended, but what if you were never in a position to move out of that crappy job and weren't able to go study because of a sub-conscious thing that people never talked about? Sweeping it away won't make it go away. It will make it even more ingrained in the fabric of culture by allowing people to convince themselves it doesn't exist, and whatever ethnicity has brought their troubles on their own heads.

[StrykerFSU]

how about we pay for the sins of the father for the same amount of time that they were committed?

I think that is ridiculous.

It's not about you being punished, it's about them being given some help.

Which them are we talking about? Let's talk about college applications. The folks being "given some help" are those that are underqualified because they would be granted acceptance on their own merits otherwise. The alternative to that scenario is that each Admissions Office at a university is a mini-Klan where well deserving minority students are excluded because of race. I do not think that is happening. Some applicants may get preferential attention based on legacy or donations but is that about race or wealth? What you have is under qualified students gaining admission to universities that are beyond their academic reach. The students may be ill prepared and end up suffering acadeimcally and perhaps failing out. Now, who does this serve? Certainly not the more qualified white candidate who lost his/her spot just because of race (isn't that racism?) and it does not serve the minority who does not graduate.

Is that to say that every student who gains admission through affirmative action is destined for failure? Of course it does not but it is important to recognize the risks of this system. There is a significant danger in mandating quotas and not to acknowledge that fact as endangering the rights of other citizens is foolhardy.

Has this system even been proven to be successful? Does affirmative action actually increase the number of minority college graduates? How is it justified that one group be given government sponsored preferential treatment at the expense of all others?

[StrykerFSU]

I hate doubling up posts but rather than violate my no edit rule:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2674267&page=1

Whites Only Scholarship Creates Outrage

"It's a poor way to talk about affirmative action," said David Coreas, the 21-year-old senior who is president of the Latino fraternity Phi Iota Alpha at BU. "If they want to have a scholarship, then let them have a scholarship, but they're stirring up controversy in the wrong way."

This was the only example of "outrage" that ABC news cited, seems a stretch. In fact, Mr. Coreas says let them have their scholarship so where is the outrage? I find it significant that Mr. Coreas is the president of a fraternity that defines itself by race, who better to talk about equality among the races. I wonder if a white man would be welcome in the brotherhood.

[Sonny]

By the way, here is the link to the original article on the BU Student Newspaper site:
LINK

[Beta]

This was the only example of "outrage" that ABC news cited, seems a stretch. In fact, Mr. Coreas says let them have their scholarship so where is the outrage? I find it significant that Mr. Coreas is the president of a fraternity that defines itself by race, who better to talk about equality among the races. I wonder if a white man would be welcome in the brotherhood.

Def not. You are not welcome in his fraternity if you are not their ethnicity. Although, while there's nothing wrong with a "cultural" club that explores their historical identity and stuff...but isnt the good thing about culture is to educate others about it? Kinda hard for people to learn about your history when you have a sign hung up saying "keep out".

[Jester]

The folks being "given some help" are those that are underqualified because they would be granted acceptance on their own merits otherwise.

This is a gross generalization. It also begs the question why so many minorities are "unqualified", but that is for another time.

The alternative to that scenario is that each Admissions Office at a university is a mini-Klan where well deserving minority students are excluded because of race.

This is totally extreme, and requires direct intention to discriminate. The Chronicle on Higher Education just posted a report that directly states "Over all, the nation's top public universities are getting "whiter and richer..."". The two statistically go together, but the exclusion is no less real for its being unintentional.

[Sonny]

Over all, the nation's top public universities are getting "whiter and richer..."". The two statistically go together, but the exclusion is no less real for its being unintentional.

And that isn't a gross generalization??