A/B movement

[Dylan Dickey]

With the UMLL Division B growing (new teams and other UMLL A teams making adjustments) any thoughts on the UMLL's nationally contending Division B teams possibly choosing to make the move to Division A in the next 2 to 3 years?

[DanGenck]

St. John's will probably look to move to Division III should they ever feel that movement is necessary.

[dulax19]

i was wondering how st johns could possibly even go D3, wouldnt they have to travel to like Ohio pretty much every weekend for games, I also heard that they would still have to pay dues, anyone with any details? im sure pinball has some insight

[DanGenck]

I believe St. John's University's Board of Trustees is going to vote on varsity lacrosse at their next meeting.

I suspect there will be dues ($300?) for a few years until the necessary budget money is made available by the school. Adding a sport full on is not cost effective for any school, but a slow phase in of budget increase over several years is more realistic.

St. John's will most likely play a varsity schedule that would include Whittier, Colorado College, the Ohio Teams, a new varsity team in Michigan (Adrian? Alma? One of the two), and a mix of high level club varsity teams. Home and home contracts would guarentee some home games to go along with the travel each year.

That is the vague information I am given as an aging alumnus of the program.

[DwinsChamps]

I love the idea of having an NCAA div. 3 program in the upper midwest, but I can't imagine St. John's being successful anytime soon. It seems to me that just about every year Whittier, not a top tier D3 team by any means, handily beats the best MDIA teams that they play....CO State, San Diego St., you name it. Do you believe that in the next 5 years St. John's will be able to compete with such a squad?

I would rather play on a competitive mdia team than what would be one of the worst D3 teams. Not to mention, first year Div. 3 teams (Fontbonne in St. Louis is an example) usually have a schedule comprised entirely of away games. With no D3 teams in proximity Blaine, that would mean travelling long distances (mucho expensivo) and creating an expensive program that the school would need to support. Fiscally, this notion of going "D3" doesn't sound plausible.

I think for a D3 jump to be successful, lacrosse in MN and surrounding states needs a few more years of growth, because forming an NCAA team is a gigantic undertaking.

[Jolly Roger]

Although somone needs to be first...

[LaxRef]

I love the idea of having an NCAA div. 3 program in the upper midwest, but I can't imagine St. John's being successful anytime soon.

Chicken or the egg. Will they become NCAA because they've reached a certain talent level, or will they reach a certain talent level because they become NCAA? Either one is possible (or, of course, neither).

[Pinball]

I will try to keep most of my "homer" comments to myself, and talk about the situation as much as i am allowed too....

Every year we see Minnesota kids testing the waters at sometimes at schools basically to try NCAA D3,D2,D1 lacrosse. Many of those kids are just looking to play at the upper echelon of lacrosse and climb out of the "minnesota sucks at lacrosse" bubble. Year after year we see more and more kids succeeding from Minnesota at the upper levels (maubach, forsyth, senn, achenbach etc etc). So we know the talent is in Minnesota and now that talent will become more and more developed with the growth of high school lacrosse in Minnesota. So maybe we can keep a few of the upper recruits at home and come up to SJU. SJU also has a great relationship with many private schools all across the country, and a varsity lacrosse program is maybe what that blue chip lacrosse recruit is looking for in coming to SJU.

At SJU it is a culture of athletics, the administration sees athletics as a very important marketing and community building tool that they effectively promote. We are one of the few d3 college that has a sports marketing and information office, and our facilites are one that are top notch. We do have one of the better/best d3 football programs in the country and think how many 2 sports (football/lacrosse) athletes are out there.

If we make the jump to d3 we are hoping it would have a snowball effect among the MIAC school like st. thomas, bethel, carleton, st. olaf etc etc etc

There is a good chance that we would go 0-15 our first year, but you must start out somewhere. baby steps, baby steps........

Will it happen? I honestly dont know as I am not very in touch with the the board of regents (if you know someone probably should call them now). It seems to be that all the pieces of the puzzle are slowly coming together.

And we have to remember this is d3 we are talking about, we aren't looking to suit up agaisnt Navy..........

Maybe Gagliardi will coach............

[BB]

Thats fantastic if it happens although....

I highly doubt you would see much the same team that is there.

My guess is there would be a new coach, new recruits, and the roster would change dramatically leaving little room for the former club players that have put there efforts forth thus far in this.

Which leads to another odd question.

the MDIA (or whatever it is now) cannot add teams that have varsity squads, but.....

Can a MDIA team continue to play even though their school has decided to add a varsity team?

[Dulax31]

Thats fantastic if it happens although....
Can a MDIA team continue to play even though their school has decided to add a varsity team?

Nope

[Pinball]

Thats fantastic if it happens although....
Can a MDIA team continue to play even though their school has decided to add a varsity team?

Nope

actually yes, mr. fleck. Look at the likes of Lindenwood, SCAD and maybe a few others. They are varsity in the minds of the school, but participate in the MCLA.

[Sonny]

Thats fantastic if it happens although....
Can a MDIA team continue to play even though their school has decided to add a varsity team?

Nope

actually yes, mr. fleck. Look at the likes of Lindenwood, SCAD and maybe a few others. They are varsity in the minds of the school, but participate in the MCLA.

I believe that LU and SCAD are actually NAIA schools. St. John's is NCAA Division 3. Under current MCLA regulations, a men's lacrosse club team couldn't compete under the MCLA if their respective school added a varsity program.

[Jolly Roger]

The distiction lies in whether teams compete for an NCAA championship or not.

If St John's were NCAA DIII they would be excluded from membership in the MCLA. They certainly could (and undoubtedly would) schedule contests vs MCLA teams.

It is my understanding that SCAD is in the process of transitioning to an NCAA program (DII?) and, once aligned, will no longer be eligible for membership in the SELC.

Lindenwood is a unique situations because their varsity athletic department is affiliated with the NAIA which does not sponsor Mens Lacrosse. According to a press release last year from our organization's Board of Directors, LU was determined not to be a varsity program, but rather, a club varsity program along the lines of Michigan, BYU, etc. LU was, in fact, praised for the strides the team had made in their organization and relationship with their university and offered as an example for club teams.

[BB]

My thought was this, I know there is a rule that doesn't allow teams to be added if they have a Div III varsity team. But does it say that the MDIA team has to be disbanded if a the school adds a Div. III team.

I would feel badly for the current team members that most likely would not be playing in the future. It is a good thing for Lacrosse in the State, but it would be too bad for the current players that couldn't make the squad once they became Div. III.

[Sonny]

My thought was this, I know there is a rule that doesn't allow teams to be added if they have a Div III varsity team. But does it say that the MDIA team has to be disbanded if a the school adds a Div. III team.

I don't think the team would necessarily be disbanded... but they probably won't be able to compete officially under the UMLL/MCLA banner. The club team probably would continue to exist on some level and they would be free to schedule whomever they want, but they probably wouldn't be eligible to compete for a MCLA national championship or a UMLL conference championship.