Legal or illegal?

[laxative]

"I dissaprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Is it just me or does this quote work counter to Goalie's argument?

I disapprove of you burning that flag, but I will defend to the death your right to burn it.

[UofMLaxGoalie11]

Hold on-

Burning a house is illegal because-

A) Fumes into the air can harm other people.
B) Uncontrolled fire can harm other property.
C) Large scale fires can get people hurt other than yourself.
D) (most important) You cannot control a large scale fire without help from a fire department.

If that is your reasoning, then it would not be illegal to burn a flag because of the symbolic meaning of the flag, but rather for the same reasons as listed above.

How about starting stuff on fire during a riot then. I would expect a fair amount of flag burning to be done during a gathering. If the wind were to pick up or something, the flag could blow over to other people. If they used gas or some propellant to start it on fire, it may catch as well. First off, burning anything in an uncontrolled setting in general is a pretty stupid thing to do. I somehow doubt that lots of flag burners carry fire extinguishers or have firemen standing behind them. Charge them with arson then.

"I dissaprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Is it just me or does this quote work counter to Goalie's argument?

I disapprove of you burning that flag, but I will defend to the death your right to burn it.

I was using this to get to the point that im glad people have the freedoms that we do, even though i may not agree with them. I have a different view than several of you because of some of the stuff I have deemed important and the significance I have related it to. If I were to burn a box of stuff with your college logo on it, or a box of stuff that might be important to your religion or something of that matter, I could see you getting upset about it too. Go ahead and burn a paper mache elephant (under control) or paint mustaches on democratic billboards or something like that. I think governments are the one to blame for problems in this country and the flag does not represent a political party, but rather a country. Im not out day and night lobbying for this bill to be passed, but I think that burning the flag is hypocritical as well. I consider burning the flag like using the bill of rights as toilet paper.

[UofMLaxGoalie11]

I just thought of a question. Why would you burn a flag. What would you hope to prove?

[Campbell]

what about all these people that fly little flags on their cars until they are faded and torn beyond recognition? These people annoy me. As far as burning a flag, I think people can do what they want. It is a free country and most of us are pretty happy about that. Personally, I don't agree with flag burning, but I'm not going to raise hell about someone doing it. To me the flag is merely a symbol of this great nation, and if we get caught up in the symbol rather than what it actually stands for then we are going down the wrong road. All the effort that is wasted in this country on getting prayer in school, getting flag burning banned, taking god out of the pledge, etc. just gets on my nerves...is it really all that important when we have all these other problems. Maybe the anti-flag burning pundits could focus some of their energy on lowering gas prices.

[JW]

Allow flag burning. Arrest them for violating arson laws on public property.

Sonny great line.

V was more thought provoking than I thought it would be. But of course it would be if Agent Smith (from the Matrix) is playing V.

While yes taking away the right to burn the flag may lead to other rights being taken away. However, like has been said, burning a flag just craps on the millions of people in this country's history that fought, bled, missed their child being born, missed holiday's, were away from family for years at a time, and for some were treated poorly by the american public for fighting in Vietnam. I know that for me, when I see someone burn the symbol that stands for unity, stands for freedom it hurts me. It totally disrespects my family (father served in the USAF, uncle is currently a Lt. Colonel in the USAF, Grandfather fought two tours of duty in the USAF during vietnam as a pilot, and my Great Grandfather who served during WWII). This country is allowed to have protests and rallies where people can say anything they want because of the great people who served for our country.

Do what you want, say what you want, but burning is not necessary.

[KnoxVegas]

Here is what has always gotten me. While buring the US flag is not illegal, wear clothing with the flag on it is a violation of US Code Title 4 Chapter 1- The Flag:
"§8. Respect for flag
The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general."

Why not enforce laws and codes we have already?
[/url]

[Champ]

Here is what has always gotten me. While buring the US flag is not illegal, wear clothing with the flag on it is a violation of US Code Title 4 Chapter 1- The Flag:
"§8. Respect for flag
The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general."

Why not enforce laws and codes we have already?
[/url]

I would say that it means you should not wear the flag itself, but a T-shirt with a picture of the flag on it is acceptable.

[KnoxVegas]

"j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart."

Learn more abotuthe code and the flag at:
http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html

Here is another one:
The flag can only be lowered to half mast by the president and/or the governor of an individual state. It is not an arbitrary jesture.

[FLAK]

I dont think the framers had laser printing in mind when they made up their minds about what you can and can't do with the flag. What it means is that you can't take an actual flag, cut it up, and then make it into something completely different. I mean you're not even supposed to let the flag touch the ground, im pretty sure that somewhere in there a flame would be considered something that you might want to keep a flag away from.

[Adam Gamradt]

Now you're starting to sound like Noam Chomsky.

Dan, you say this as if that's a bad thing. He's one of the greatest minds of our time, regardless of how you view his political beliefs.

His work on linguistics was phenomenal. His work led to movement toward cognitive, rather than behavioral psycology.

[Adam Gamradt]

My mother sent me a tshirt with a flag on it, and USA on the front, and some Flag boxers

I thought it was strange, as I'm not really a rah rah, Merica rules, kind of guy.

I told her thanks, but wondered why she thought I would want something like this.

She says to me, look at the label.

The shirt was made in Mexico, and the shorts in Bangladesh.

As far as the burning flag goes.

A symbol is only a symbol, the actual artifact of the flag itself has no meaning, other than what we ascribe to it. You cannot burn the meaning of the flag, so flag burning is a non issue.

However, the values that the flag stands for can not be neglected or the symbol will begin lose it's collective meaning, and thus, it's ability to unite us. I fear the debate over flag burning is just another disctraction used by those in power to keep us common folk in check, and is used to divide us further. Same goes for the absurd focus on preventing gay's from getting married, immigration, terrorism, etc.

The real threat to America does not come from those who would burn the flag in protest, but instead from those who wrap themselves in this symbol to gain power and control.

Now I'm starting to sound like Chomsky.

[Kyle Berggren]

In my eyes, the most important concept here is how much government do we need? We're legislating things we have no business legislating... for instance (I'm sure I'll be the minority here)....

Should our government legislate...

1) Smoking in restaurants?
- No - It's my business, my patrons, if they like the smoke & accept the health consequences, my doors should stay open. Many businesses have prospered for decades smoke free, by their own choice... If the public/market demands no smoke, I wouldn't be able to keep my doors open. On a side note, I don't smoke, nor do I like to go to smoking venues... but, I do not believe that my want should control the minority or majority.

2) what can go into pepperoni?
- Yes - It's a tough one. Right now, it's an unregulated meat(or it was two years ago), you could be eating anything?.?.?. Does that mean it shouldn't come into the country? No, bring it. People should be able to get as fat as they want eating it (their own choice), but it would be nice to know what's in it (Information to help with that choice). We should also enforce the thruth-fulness of that information, but we'd rather... legislate things like the horse incident in Enumclaw, WA (pretty close to PLU).

4) burning of the flag?
- No - I'll despise it, but I have a choice on whether or not I'm around it.... I don't want to see any cross burning, rednecks, racists, idiots, or disrespectful kids with terrible parents, but I have to deal with it so I can wear a terrible shirt found on www.tshirthell.com if I want to.

Note: that is not a good site for those of you at the office, and I did erase 3) because it could have started its own rant as if mine wasn't long enough.

[OAKS]

Should our government legislate...

1) Smoking in restaurants?
- No - It's my business, my patrons, if they like the smoke & accept the health consequences, my doors should stay open. Many businesses have prospered for decades smoke free, by their own choice... If the public/market demands no smoke, I wouldn't be able to keep my doors open. On a side note, I don't smoke, nor do I like to go to smoking venues... but, I do not believe that my want should control the minority or majority.

A restaurant is still a 'public' place for the most part. If you have someone doing something that is harming others in public, I feel it's pretty clear cut that something needs to be done. Parents who bring their children in - those kids have no real say in whether they are willing to accept the consequences of people smoking around them. Clubs and bars where minors aren't allowed are a different matter - pretty much everyone there is consciously making a choice to be there.

[laxative]

2) what can go into pepperoni?
- Yes - It's a tough one. Right now, it's an unregulated meat(or it was two years ago), you could be eating anything?.?.?.

Come on man. There are some things I just don't want to know.

[lil lady lax fan]

V was more thought provoking than I thought it would be. But of course it would be if Agent Smith (from the Matrix) is playing V.

It totally disrespects my family (father served in the USAF, uncle is currently a Lt. Colonel in the USAF, Grandfather fought two tours of duty in the USAF during vietnam as a pilot, and my Great Grandfather who served during WWII). This country is allowed to have protests and rallies where people can say anything they want because of the great people who served for our country.

JW, you make me feel old--my Dad was a B24 pilot in WWII.

As for Noam Chomsky, I believe he was teasing me about my political leanings or jaded attitude toward our exalted congressional leaders. When your sister-in-law does lunch for a living with the folks up on the Hill you hear lots of interesting stories about them.