Bad News for Duke

[superdave]

In my three years of playing lacrosse no strippers were ever harmed.

[WT]

DNA Results In Duke Lacrosse Investigation Could Come Back Today
Attorney: Tempers Flared, But Exotic Dancer Wasn't Raped

POSTED: 7:16 pm EDT April 6, 2006
UPDATED: 11:35 am EDT April 7, 2006

DURHAM, N.C. -- A Duke lacrosse athlete's attorney said Thursday that tempers flared during a party where an exotic dancer claims she was gang-raped and beaten, but contends there is no definitive evidence that there was aggressive behavior in the house.

Attorney Joe Cheshire, who is representing one of the lacrosse captains, said members of the highly ranked lacrosse team hired two dancers for a party on March 13 and paid the women $800 for their services, but that they did not provide the services they promised.

"These two girls were paid a tremendous amount of money to dance for two hours," Cheshire said. "We can show, and will show if we have to, that they danced for only three minutes and decided to take all that money with them."

The alleged victim told police she became fearful that night when the players became aggressive, and that is why she left. She told investigators that the men convinced her and the other dancer to go back inside the house, and that was when she was assaulted.

Cheshire said the men at the party were frustrated and angry, and points to an e-mail message recovered from one player's computer that was contained in a search warrant released Wednesday.

The message, Cheshire felt, was written out of frustration for an evening that did not live up to expectations. The e-mail, he said, shows nothing more.

Full article on WRAL.com here:
http://www.wral.com/news/8516436/detail.html

This sounds to me like a case of the strippers getting paid $800 to dance for 2 hours, and then leaving after 3 minutes without giving the money back thereby trying to rip off these guys. The players probably then appealed to the strippers greed by promising them more money to come back inside and when they got back inside, the 3 guys probably told the strippers that they weren't going to give them anymore money and that they better give back the money they had already given them since the strippers were trying to rip them off. The strippers probably refused, holding onto the money like it was their last drug fix, and the guys probably forcibly took the money back. Now, everyone is pissed off! The guys are pissed off because they were all jazzed up for a strip show and they dancers tried to rip them off, the dancers are pissed off because they didn't get away with ripping these guys off AND the had the $800 they were paid forcibly taken back from them. Now tempers are flaring on both sides, the guys start making racial slurs which pisses off the strippers even more. The strippers now don't have their money and they are really pissed off by being called the "N" word. They decide these guys aren't going to get away with this and that they are going to make them pay! So they either concoct the rape story or may already have had the story worked out and ready to use just for situations like this. The call is placed to police, and we all know the rest.

wow, Lax_Stats. for a person who has been exhorting everyone to take a "wait and see, innocent until proven guilty" approach regarding the allegations against the accused, you sure are willing to dive right in with pure speculation when it comes to the accuser. don't you find that the least bit incongruous?

[Lax_Stats]

DNA Results In Duke Lacrosse Investigation Could Come Back Today
Attorney: Tempers Flared, But Exotic Dancer Wasn't Raped

POSTED: 7:16 pm EDT April 6, 2006
UPDATED: 11:35 am EDT April 7, 2006

DURHAM, N.C. -- A Duke lacrosse athlete's attorney said Thursday that tempers flared during a party where an exotic dancer claims she was gang-raped and beaten, but contends there is no definitive evidence that there was aggressive behavior in the house.

Attorney Joe Cheshire, who is representing one of the lacrosse captains, said members of the highly ranked lacrosse team hired two dancers for a party on March 13 and paid the women $800 for their services, but that they did not provide the services they promised.

"These two girls were paid a tremendous amount of money to dance for two hours," Cheshire said. "We can show, and will show if we have to, that they danced for only three minutes and decided to take all that money with them."

The alleged victim told police she became fearful that night when the players became aggressive, and that is why she left. She told investigators that the men convinced her and the other dancer to go back inside the house, and that was when she was assaulted.

Cheshire said the men at the party were frustrated and angry, and points to an e-mail message recovered from one player's computer that was contained in a search warrant released Wednesday.

The message, Cheshire felt, was written out of frustration for an evening that did not live up to expectations. The e-mail, he said, shows nothing more.

Full article on WRAL.com here:
http://www.wral.com/news/8516436/detail.html

This sounds to me like a case of the strippers getting paid $800 to dance for 2 hours, and then leaving after 3 minutes without giving the money back thereby trying to rip off these guys. The players probably then appealed to the strippers greed by promising them more money to come back inside and when they got back inside, the 3 guys probably told the strippers that they weren't going to give them anymore money and that they better give back the money they had already given them since the strippers were trying to rip them off. The strippers probably refused, holding onto the money like it was their last drug fix, and the guys probably forcibly took the money back. Now, everyone is pissed off! The guys are pissed off because they were all jazzed up for a strip show and they dancers tried to rip them off, the dancers are pissed off because they didn't get away with ripping these guys off AND the had the $800 they were paid forcibly taken back from them. Now tempers are flaring on both sides, the guys start making racial slurs which pisses off the strippers even more. The strippers now don't have their money and they are really pissed off by being called the "N" word. They decide these guys aren't going to get away with this and that they are going to make them pay! So they either concoct the rape story or may already have had the story worked out and ready to use just for situations like this. The call is placed to police, and we all know the rest.

wow, Lax_Stats. for a person who has been exhorting everyone to take a "wait and see, innocent until proven guilty" approach regarding the allegations against the accused, you sure are willing to dive right in with pure speculation when it comes to the accuser. don't you find that the least bit incongruous?

Not at all!! I didn't accuse anyone of the felony crime of rape. I have taken all of the evidence presented thus far and developed a reasonable hypothesis of everyones actions. That my friend, is what a good defense attorney would do and then defend his clients accordingly!!! You forget, I have defended numerous "Johns" as well as "prostitutes". I know what goes on in this industry and how things go down. As a defense attorney, I have investigated many a claim by both sides. I am very very very familiar with the steps of the transactions and what boths sides do during those transactions and how both sides try and work, play, and rip off each other. I know it is not uncommon for an escort to ask for her money up front and then make some excuse to supposedly leave for a moment saying she will come right back and then drive off without performing what she was paid to perform. I know it isn't uncommon for the "john" to do his dirty little deed and then find a reason to not pay the escort if she didn't ask for the money up front. I know the actions of both the escort and the "john" when they get ripped off and and the usual accusations each one will make of the other. And lastly, I know from my years of experience that the most common accusation by an escort when something goes wrong is to claim she has been raped because of the way the police handle the accusation and because of the damage it inflicts on the guys life!!! Any other questions?? If you can come up with a more plausible explanation of what really took place that night based on your experience and the facts presented so far, I would be interested in hearing what you have to say.

[WT]

Not at all. However, by the same note, it sounds like you have already judged them as guilty. Why is that? Do you know something the rest of us don't know? Were you there? Have you interviewed the players or the alleged victims? Do you not believe in "innocent until proven guilty"?? I have been saying the whole time that we should all quit commenting and speculating on this situation as by doing so we are just adding fuel to the fire! As a defense attorney, I know that people commit horrific crimes. I also know that the quickest way for a person to screw with someones life that they are pissed off at for some reason is to accuse them of the things the players have been accused of!!! Let's all just butt out of this situation and quit inflaming it with our comments and let the police and the legal system handle this! If they are guilty, that will be revealed. If not, let's not ruin everyones reputation as well as the reputation of Duke University and the entire lacrosse program there!!!

i guess you've changed your mind about butting out and not speculating, huh?

[Lax_Stats]

Not at all. However, by the same note, it sounds like you have already judged them as guilty. Why is that? Do you know something the rest of us don't know? Were you there? Have you interviewed the players or the alleged victims? Do you not believe in "innocent until proven guilty"?? I have been saying the whole time that we should all quit commenting and speculating on this situation as by doing so we are just adding fuel to the fire! As a defense attorney, I know that people commit horrific crimes. I also know that the quickest way for a person to screw with someones life that they are pissed off at for some reason is to accuse them of the things the players have been accused of!!! Let's all just butt out of this situation and quit inflaming it with our comments and let the police and the legal system handle this! If they are guilty, that will be revealed. If not, let's not ruin everyones reputation as well as the reputation of Duke University and the entire lacrosse program there!!!

i guess you've changed your mind about butting out and not speculating, huh?

You seem to want to argue simply for the sake of arguing, so I will not respond to you further. Have an awesome day and be blessed!!

[yourmom]

It's official the Duke story is everywhere, and I can't get away from it! I catch my news via a podcast from ABC on my iPod every morning on my way and in between classes. I about fell out of my chair when they started talking about it. Just thought I'd throw that one out for everyone. You can now hear about the duke scandal on your ipod.

[Lax_Stats]

For all of you who thought it was such a wonderfully good thing that Coach Pressler resigned from Duke, please read the following story.

Ex-Coach Says He's Not To Blame For Duke Rape Case

DURHAM, N.C. -- Former Duke University men's lacrosse coach Mike Pressler on Thursday professed his innocence in the growing scandal over an alleged rape that has enveloped the lacrosse team and the university in recent weeks.

In a statement released by Durham attorney Edward Falcone, Pressler said he "is no more guarantor of the behavior of 18- to 21-year-olds than are parents of children that age.

"Coach Pressler has worked hard as the lacrosse coach at Duke for the past 16 years to try to develop young men who are a credit to Duke University, both off and on the field," the statement said, noting the high graduation rates and numerous academic honors collected by his players over the years.

[WT]

DNA Results In Duke Lacrosse Investigation Could Come Back Today
Attorney: Tempers Flared, But Exotic Dancer Wasn't Raped

POSTED: 7:16 pm EDT April 6, 2006
UPDATED: 11:35 am EDT April 7, 2006

DURHAM, N.C. -- A Duke lacrosse athlete's attorney said Thursday that tempers flared during a party where an exotic dancer claims she was gang-raped and beaten, but contends there is no definitive evidence that there was aggressive behavior in the house.

Attorney Joe Cheshire, who is representing one of the lacrosse captains, said members of the highly ranked lacrosse team hired two dancers for a party on March 13 and paid the women $800 for their services, but that they did not provide the services they promised.

"These two girls were paid a tremendous amount of money to dance for two hours," Cheshire said. "We can show, and will show if we have to, that they danced for only three minutes and decided to take all that money with them."

The alleged victim told police she became fearful that night when the players became aggressive, and that is why she left. She told investigators that the men convinced her and the other dancer to go back inside the house, and that was when she was assaulted.

Cheshire said the men at the party were frustrated and angry, and points to an e-mail message recovered from one player's computer that was contained in a search warrant released Wednesday.

The message, Cheshire felt, was written out of frustration for an evening that did not live up to expectations. The e-mail, he said, shows nothing more.

Full article on WRAL.com here:
http://www.wral.com/news/8516436/detail.html

This sounds to me like a case of the strippers getting paid $800 to dance for 2 hours, and then leaving after 3 minutes without giving the money back thereby trying to rip off these guys. The players probably then appealed to the strippers greed by promising them more money to come back inside and when they got back inside, the 3 guys probably told the strippers that they weren't going to give them anymore money and that they better give back the money they had already given them since the strippers were trying to rip them off. The strippers probably refused, holding onto the money like it was their last drug fix, and the guys probably forcibly took the money back. Now, everyone is pissed off! The guys are pissed off because they were all jazzed up for a strip show and they dancers tried to rip them off, the dancers are pissed off because they didn't get away with ripping these guys off AND the had the $800 they were paid forcibly taken back from them. Now tempers are flaring on both sides, the guys start making racial slurs which pisses off the strippers even more. The strippers now don't have their money and they are really pissed off by being called the "N" word. They decide these guys aren't going to get away with this and that they are going to make them pay! So they either concoct the rape story or may already have had the story worked out and ready to use just for situations like this. The call is placed to police, and we all know the rest.

wow, Lax_Stats. for a person who has been exhorting everyone to take a "wait and see, innocent until proven guilty" approach regarding the allegations against the accused, you sure are willing to dive right in with pure speculation when it comes to the accuser. don't you find that the least bit incongruous?

Not at all!! I didn't accuse anyone of the felony crime of rape. I have taken all of the evidence presented thus far and developed a reasonable hypothesis of everyones actions. That my friend, is what a good defense attorney would do and then defend his clients accordingly!!! You forget, I have defended numerous "Johns" as well as "prostitutes". I know what goes on in this industry and how things go down. As a defense attorney, I have investigated many a claim by both sides. I am very very very familiar with the steps of the transactions and what boths sides do during those transactions and how both sides try and work, play, and rip off each other. I know it is not uncommon for an escort to ask for her money up front and then make some excuse to supposedly leave for a moment saying she will come right back and then drive off without performing what she was paid to perform. I know it isn't uncommon for the "john" to do his dirty little deed and then find a reason to not pay the escort if she didn't ask for the money up front. I know the actions of both the escort and the "john" when they get ripped off and and the usual accusations each one will make of the other. And lastly, I know from my years of experience that the most common accusation by an escort when something goes wrong is to claim she has been raped because of the way the police handle the accusation and because of the damage it inflicts on the guys life!!! Any other questions?? If you can come up with a more plausible explanation of what really took place that night based on your experience and the facts presented so far, I would be interested in hearing what you have to say.

hi, Lax_Stats. i've noticed that you've mentioned (several times) that you're a defense attorney. I'm glad to hear that, because a few things about the investigation has been gnawing at me, and I'd appreciate your opinion on a few things.

do you think the non-custodial interviews of the Duke captains may have violated their 6th Amendment rights? why? do you see any deficiencies in the search warrants for the lacrosse house or the dorm room or the problems with the order for DNA testing? why? if there was a constitutional violation with the DNA testing order, could you provide a Wong Sun analysis as to any incriminating evidence that may turn up because of the testing?

since you're so experienced in criminal law, i'd really appreciate your thoughts on this. thanks.

[Bluevelvet]

Great-
Now we get duelling law student analyses. What is this, a Bar Exam question? Let's stick to the lacrosse implications.

LaxStats, I implore you not to answer that question, on the grounds that the answer might tend to bore everyone to death.
Come on guys, police proceedure is one thing but these law school questions about North Carolina search and seizure law are just too much.
Give it a rest.

By the way, Wong Sun was a famous 60's US Supreme Court case about about whether evidence gathered as a result of illegal police action is inadmissable as fruit of the illegal act or whether the evidence is so far removed from the illegal act that it may be admitted.http://www.collette.com/attorneys/wongsun_v_us.html

[Sonny]

For all of you who thought it was such a wonderfully good thing that Coach Pressler resigned from Duke, please read the following story.

Ex-Coach Says He's Not To Blame For Duke Rape Case

DURHAM, N.C. -- Former Duke University men's lacrosse coach Mike Pressler on Thursday professed his innocence in the growing scandal over an alleged rape that has enveloped the lacrosse team and the university in recent weeks.

In a statement released by Durham attorney Edward Falcone, Pressler said he "is no more guarantor of the behavior of 18- to 21-year-olds than are parents of children that age.

"Coach Pressler has worked hard as the lacrosse coach at Duke for the past 16 years to try to develop young men who are a credit to Duke University, both off and on the field," the statement said, noting the high graduation rates and numerous academic honors collected by his players over the years.

Please do not post copyrighted material (i.e a full article) to the message forums. You also need to provide a link to the original source (i.e. external web site).

[semilaxed]

I don't want to sound crazy or anything but i have been thinking this the whole time. Every time i have been to a "stripper party" the strippers have tried to leave with the money in the first 10 mins of them being there. im just saying i have seen it happen 3 times . we don't have strip clubs in tally at all.

[Bluevelvet]

Time-stamped photographs will show an exotic dancer was already injured and "very impaired" when she arrived at a party where she claims she was raped by members of Duke University's men's lacrosse team, an attorney for one of the players said Sunday.

Durham attorney Bill Thomas said some of the photographs, taken when she arrived at the house, indicate the woman was injured before getting to the party March 13. They show extensive bruises and scrapes on her legs, especially around the knees, he said.

"This young lady was substantially impaired. She had fallen several times during the course of the evening," Thomas said.

He declined to identify the player he represents and said he would not release the photos, taken by at least two cameras, until pending DNA tests are completed.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/04/09/national/a162016D79.DTL

[Sonny]

Same AP Article linked in the Houston Chronicle:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/ ... 82642.html

Here is an AP photo from that article today at the house in question:

(A crowd of protestors gather at the site of the alleged rape involving members of the Duke lacrosse team, Sunday, April 9, 2006, in Durham, N.C. (AP Photo/ Karl DeBlaker)

[Sonny]

Another AP article from Forbes.com....

Elton Brand says he never felt racism at Duke. Neither did fellow black players Carlos Boozer or Daniel Ewing. And it wasn't just because they were stars on the wildly popular and successful basketball team.

"There are a lot of multicultural people at Duke, and everybody felt that way, not just the athletes," Brand said.

Allegations that three white members of the lacrosse team raped and racially insulted a black stripper hired to dance at a March 13 party have stunned the campus and the Durham community, sparking days of protests and rallies. Last week, Duke canceled the remainder of the lacrosse season and accepted the resignation of the team's coach.

The move came hours after the release of an e-mail sent by a team member that President Richard H. Brodhead called "sickening and repulsive." That night, Brodhead initiated a series of internal investigations into Duke's response to the allegations and into whether the school has fostered a culture of intolerance and elitism.

"My fiancee, Shahara, also went to Duke and she had friends there of all different races," said Brand, who now plays professionally for the Los Angeles Clippers. "She loved it there, too, and she didn't have a problem with racism, so this seems out of character."

More details of what happened might emerge soon. The results of DNA tests of 46 of the lacrosse team's 47 players - since the alleged victim said her attackers were white, the team's lone black member was not tested - could be completed any day. Prosecutors have yet to charge anyone in the case, but have said charges could be filed as early as this week.

Former Duke Athletes Await More Details
http://www.forbes.com/business/manufacturing/feeds/ap/2006/04/09/ap2658006.html

[whitcd]

It's official the Duke story is everywhere, and I can't get away from it!

This weekend in Stevens Point Wi, some guy drove by screaming Duke, Duke,Duke,...... as we were warming up. Must not have much else to do on a Saturday afternoon.