MONTANA

[lincoln02]

will they ever be an A team again?

edit: 117 views and no replies? that's got to be a record. am i the only one that's curious here?

[Laxfan23]

That's an interesting question. Could definitily compete as things stand right now. Maybe a Montana person could answer that.

[Hi-Line Lax]

That is an interesting question...Right now I really couldn't answer that with any specifics. We've really only been competitive for two years, so as for right now, I think I'd like to see us get a little more organized. We do have what looks to be another strong recruiting class for next year though, so who knows.

[lincoln02]

That's an interesting question. Could definitily compete as things stand right now. Maybe a Montana person could answer that.

should be able to compete with 13,000 students.

[Kyle Berggren]

It's Montana, a real lacrosse hotbed.... As their program continues to develop, and recruiting keeps getting better and better, they'll be able to make that decision. They can compete with many A division programs in the PNCLL, but how about 3/5/7 years from now? We don't want division jumping, we want teams to find a spot and stick with it. That being said, I am a supporter of the Division B being small schools, I'd actually choose to bump WWU & Montana out of the B, leaving the B with a huge chunk of small (turns out mainly private) schools of less than 5K students.

[lincoln02]

thanks for your insight kyle. it's easy for one not involved with the league structure to forget the organizational consequences of jumping back and forth b/t divisions. while montana is indeed no hotbed, how many kids from the team came from montana? the school is littered with students from across the northwest. i definately agree with you about the need for small schools in the b-league though.

[BallinOnAbudget]

As for the 13,000 student body at Montana..."a real lacrosse hotbed"

Montana is the only state in the PNCLL that doesn't have high school lacrosse programs, club, varsity, recreational - nothing. Of the 13,000* students enrolled at the U of M approximately 10,000* are undergraduate. Of those 10,000 undergrads 75%* are montana natives. If my math is correct our recruiting body is about 2,500 kids that are out of state and hopefully have heard about the sport of lacrosse. During practices i have heard interested passerbys ask questions like, "is that rugby?", "Oh i love watching Jai Alai!" or my personal favorite, "isn't polo supposed to be played on horses?". So, as for our 10,000 eligible students the majority have no idea what they are even seeing let alone what it is called. I am truly honored to say we have two "natives" on our team, born and bred montana boys that like to get down and dirty. MSU's numbers are the same. Hopefully as our dedicated team continues to improve and gain commitment, the sport will spread throughout the state. But as of right now we recruit from a very small numbers, similar to your 5K private schools.

TOP 5 in B nationally:
Claremont: team recruits from 5 different private undergraduate colleges
St. John's: 4,000 (huge state support of the sport)
San Diego: 7,000+ (califonia high schools are beggining to knock off top ranked east coast powerhouses)
Montana
UVSC: couldn't find numbers - right outside Salt Lake, a true lacrosse hotbed in the west
*I found these numbers on the University of Montana's web site: www.umt.edu

[lincoln02]

thanks for taking the time to do a breakdown ballin. i'm glad we have a discussion going about this.

[TheBearcatHimself]

TOP 5 in B nationally:
Claremont: team recruits from 5 different private undergraduate colleges
St. John's: 4,000 (huge state support of the sport)
San Diego: 7,000+ (califonia high schools are beggining to knock off top ranked east coast powerhouses)
Montana
UVSC: couldn't find numbers - right outside Salt Lake, a true lacrosse hotbed in the west
*I found these numbers on the University of Montana's web site: www.umt.edu

I think that is a great breakdown, and I think you can draw a direct correlation between the schools growing in power and their local high school talent growing. San Diego now has a couple of the top teams in the nation, La Costa Canyon and Poway just off the top of my head. California itself is exploding for lacrosse. I know that one recruit from San Diego who was a top TE recruit in football and top recruit for lacrosse is going east now I think. Salt Lake City is probably the biggest hotbed not in Colorado or California. Gonzaga's boy Kladis came from Judge Memorial there, one of the top programs. St. John's has a little more "eastern exposure" where we know lacrosse is a longtime mainstay. Can't comment on the high schools but they are obviously further along I would think.

As for Oregon and Washington, I think they are growing exponentially along with Arizona to represent lacrosse talent well, even throw Idaho and Montana into that mix potentially. Right now all the top talent from Oregon is going to UO it seems, with some sprinkles throughout other schools like OSU etc. I know Halvorssen from Lakeridge went to Notre Dame and gets playing time there, he's probly the highest profile recruit from Oregon, correct me if I'm wrong.

Montana I can't say I know too much about as far as high school lacrosse, but being one of the continual top competitors at D-IAA in football and pulling an upset in the NCAA tourney in bball would make them appear to be pretty big time for a B Division school. Obviously there are more factors than how good your football and basketball teams are to decide your division in lacrosse...I'm just saying they have good athletic talent and lacrosse should grow there as well. I personally see them as an A team in the B Division. I think they could compete and win games in the A, but this is not my decision. Interesting debate though.

[Blynk22]

I know Halvorssen from Lakeridge went to Notre Dame and gets playing time there, he's probly the highest profile recruit from Oregon, correct me if I'm wrong.

From what i hear he is on the team, but hasnt seen the field at all. it has been awhile since ive been home, so i could be wrong. Michael Clayton was another Lakeridge standout that went to play for Denver, but i cant find his name on the roster there either. As far as D3, a teammate of mine at Southridge last year, Andrew Richards, went back east to play for Stevens Tech. Other than those 3 i havent heard of any other names out of Oregon HS programs that have gotten scholarships for LAX, although there are a few All Americans from OES that will no doubt be getting offers from back east this year. Thats the hard part about recruiting for club teams, is that you cant really offer good players anything much more than playing time and a relatively more laid back atmosphere, which cant really compete with Scholarships and the awe effect of being competitively recruited.

[Chris Larson]

St. John's: 4,000 (huge state support of the sport)

Can't comment on the high schools but they are obviously further along I would think.

Lacrosse is not a boy's varsity sport in Minnesota, therefore I'd say great support witin the state's lacrosse commmunity rather than the state (high school league).

St. John's has a little more "eastern exposure" where we know lacrosse is a longtime mainstay.

Of the 41 players on St John's roster, 35 are from Minnesota. 3 from Colorado, one each from Boston, Wisconsin, and Iowa. Not exactly a pipeline to the hotbeds

St John's has improved due to better player dedication, stabilized coaching staff, and working to garner the institutional support that goes along with better team organization.

[Kyle Berggren]

In your mud bath with PLU...

2 starting attackmen never played before college... Off the top of my head, 1 had 5 goals, the other had 8 assists...

2 starting polls didn't play before college.... They are actually playing pretty well, but I don't have any stats or awards to back that up.

I don't know of more than 2 midfielders at PLU that played before attending... I could be wrong, but the vast majority of players picked it up at PLU.... Which for those of you that don't know, is dirty Tacoma, not a lacrosse hotbed, not a condusive place to field a team. These guys worked hard and have become a great team, playing much better now than earlier in the season, without their best player & athlete (Matt "I picked it up at PLU" Kennedy).

If one pool of kids is 4 times the size of another, year in and year out the larger schools should be able to produce more athletes and a better team because of it. Even 3 more athletes on a team feeds it's growth each year, only 10 guys are on the field at once... 3 athletes a year could mean 6 experienced molded senior/juniors, with more in the waiting in the wings to add to the existing talent.

Does all that mean we can't or don't want to compete with bigger schools? No, we want to play. Coaching, heart, & team play come into the mix and a school like Albertson (less than 1K student body I believe) could beat us this coming weekend and we're 3 times their size. Numbers aren't the end all and be all, but in a year without new talent coming in, athletes will be easier to find.

I'm cutting this post to shreds as I edit it, so I'm sure I'm missing lots, and things could be out of their origional context. To make it short, if you think you're on the same playing field as the Albertson's of the world, then I say you're in the B, if not... Play A. It's not my choice, that's just my opinion. I still support Montana, its a very classy group of guys and always a fun game to be a part of. I can't wait to play them again next season.

[teslax14]

I know Halvorssen from Lakeridge went to Notre Dame and gets playing time there, he's probly the highest profile recruit from Oregon, correct me if I'm wrong.

From what i hear he is on the team, but hasnt seen the field at all. it has been awhile since ive been home, so i could be wrong. Michael Clayton was another Lakeridge standout that went to play for Denver, but i cant find his name on the roster there either.

Being a good friend of Brannon Halvorsen I can tell you that he is getting A LOT of playing time at Notre Dame this year. He is in a rotation with one other long pole at LSM. As for Mike Clayton, he is not going to Denver. He is at Chapman apart of their amazing freshman class and is starting. There are many other Oregon HS players that are spread throughout the nation on D1, D2, D3, and top club teams. As the high school competition increases in Oregon, I am noticing that many more east coast schools are looking west. I chose to come to Oregon because it was a growing program with a lot of potential. I can tell you that there are some people on our team that got offers to go back east and play but felt that playing at home would increase their chances of playing earlier in their collegiate careers. Personally, I was not "awed" to go back east and play at a small school knowing that I probably wouldn't play until my later years. Look at Brannon; he was an amazing high school player but when he went to Notre Dame, he told me he had to re-learn the game because it was so different. Basically he spent two years sitting on the bench. Now look at Mike Clayton. If he had gone to Denver, he would've been lucky to see the field in the first 2-3 years but by going to Chapman, he is playing and having great success.

[TheBearcatHimself]

I know Halvorssen from Lakeridge went to Notre Dame and gets playing time there, he's probly the highest profile recruit from Oregon, correct me if I'm wrong.

From what i hear he is on the team, but hasnt seen the field at all. it has been awhile since ive been home, so i could be wrong. Michael Clayton was another Lakeridge standout that went to play for Denver, but i cant find his name on the roster there either.

Being a good friend of Brannon Halvorsen I can tell you that he is getting A LOT of playing time at Notre Dame this year. He is in a rotation with one other long pole at LSM. As for Mike Clayton, he is not going to Denver. He is at Chapman apart of their amazing freshman class and is starting. There are many other Oregon HS players that are spread throughout the nation on D1, D2, D3, and top club teams. As the high school competition increases in Oregon, I am noticing that many more east coast schools are looking west. I chose to come to Oregon because it was a growing program with a lot of potential. I can tell you that there are some people on our team that got offers to go back east and play but felt that playing at home would increase their chances of playing earlier in their collegiate careers. Personally, I was not "awed" to go back east and play at a small school knowing that I probably wouldn't play until my later years. Look at Brannon; he was an amazing high school player but when he went to Notre Dame, he told me he had to re-learn the game because it was so different. Basically he spent two years sitting on the bench. Now look at Mike Clayton. If he had gone to Denver, he would've been lucky to see the field in the first 2-3 years but by going to Chapman, he is playing and having great success.

About Halvorsen you can look at this link http://www.lax.com/stories/1549 , he is number 11, he is both on their roster and in photographs so that looks like playing time to me

About what teslax said I completely agree, I think alot of the local talent is staying home and playing here which is awesome, that is what will make our local programs grow like Oregon and OSU and so on. You won't have many kids like Halvorsen who can go and compete and make the field at that level, well at least not soon, so keeping the kids home is key.

[Lax_Stats]

Keep in mind that the initial factor in determining if a team is an "A" team or "B" team is whether they have a division 1 football program or not. If they do, they are automatically an "A" team and will always be an "A" team unless their D1 football program folds. If the school does not have a D1 football program, they are automatically a "B" team BUT they may petition the league to move up and play in the "A" division as Gonzaga has done. Did I get that right Dan and Kyle?