sportsmanship

[Adam Gamradt]

Danny,

I think Iowa would disagree, people do argue you should score as many as possible. Many posters have already said as much.

I addressed your second comment in my posting above.

However, if you're capable of beating a team by 20 goals, you have ample opportunity to play your bench before getting anywhere close to that line.

You don't have to have your three's in there passing in circles. Plan ahead and get them in while your up ten and let them play.

The argument is that after a certain point, a big win is sullied by inflating one's ego. I would argue that Coach Tierney has it right. The 19 goal portion is arbitrary, but it's a good guideline to follow.

[Campbell]

As a coach if you hold back on your scoring you do your team a great disservice because every minute a player is in a game is a learning experience, no matter their level of ability.

It's the minutes they play after they're done with college that matter the most.

We are not professional athletes. We are not grooming our players to be professional athletes. We are supposed to be teaching our student athletes how to behave like gentlemen.

Our sport is not going to grow without more teams, and higher quality competition across the board. On the surface a 27 goal victory seems excessive. However, I was not at this game. There are very good reasons to violate the 19 goal guideline, to those of us who subscribe to Tierney's philosophy.

Lacrosse, as I was taught, is a game based on honor and respect of one's opponent. Without a very good reason (attempt to injure, etc.), an incredibly lopsided victory lessens the inherent value of a dominating win, and reflects poorly on the victory.

There is a line, and it's quite fuzzy, I'll certainly agree to that. However, if you're capable of beating a team by 20 goals, you have ample opportunity to play your bench before getting anywhere close to that line.

Watch this video, and tell me that winning by as many goals as possible teaches our players anything remotely valuable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBYPaNc57Ik

Remember, it's the minutes played after college that matter the most.

Whether a coach clears their bench when they are winning a game soundly is up to them. As I stated it is a disservice to the team to not clear the bench. The same goes for the losing team, at some point you have to concede defeat and play your bench and use it as a learning experience. At that point the score becomes irrelevant. Do players learn anything remotely valuable by playing hard in a game they are dominating? You learn something everytime you throw the ball against the wall or play in a game. If a team was beating us by 20 points I would rather see their starters the whole game then their third line. Facing better competition means coming out as better players.

As far as it being honorable? Sports should be played with honor and good sportsmanship. I dont think outscoring your opponent by any amount crosses that line. I find things like showboating or heckling to be uncalled for. I didn't say that winning is all that matters, but the existence of this league is proof enough that teams want to seriously compete and win. That is what we train for, and to take that away from ALL of your players just to be nice to another team is not helping you.

As far as the video, my question is, why hasn't this kid been playing all season? 18 points in the last four minutes of the game? Autism may be a disability, but it should be no surprise that disabled people can accomplish great things too.

[A.J. Stevens]

Your backups should be in long before you get a 20 goal lead. No one said to have them throw the ball around in circles. I agree you should take the opportunity to develop your back up players. There is little development in letting them shoot freely on a goalie that has already been lit up. If your back ups are so good that they are scoring from disciplined offensive sets with off ball movement then tell them they can only shoot corners or bounce shots. Nothing can be learned from going hunting and shooting someone elses deer after it is already dead. In my opinion that is bush league and nothing more. Teams running up the score may sing differently when it happens to them.

[Danny Hogan]

I think Iowa would disagree, people do argue you should score as many as possible. Many posters have already said as much.
I addressed your second comment in my posting above.

i responded pretty hastily i should have read your post more thoroughly, i think we are on the same page. 28 is too many in my opinion but i wasn't there and have no insight on the game. i just dont' think there is much difference between 19-24ish but now we are splitting hairs.

[Adam Gamradt]

I'm with you Danny. I think we see each others line of reasoning, though we may disagree on the details.

The 19th goal is indeed arbitrary, but Coach Tierney was spot on in his reasoning.

I also find it hard to judge this particular game, as I was not in attendance.

[Arklax]

Being on the wrong end of a 21-1 WashU victory, it's easy for me to say teams shouldn't run up the score. Even though WashU wasn't running up the score in our particular game, I feel we deserved to be beaten that badly. It was a nice little wake up call for us, (and it showed during a game the next day). Some teams on the losing end of such a lopsided victory may need to experience that kind of loss.

[beckner11]

The term "running up the score" is a sympathetic plea by fans and losing teams. I would never look upon a team beating me by 20 points as unsportsmanlike. Everyone comes to play and you have to be prepared for the outcome, no matter what it is. .

I agree with this 100%! IMHO the only way I would feel like the other team was being unsportsmanlike was if they were beating us really badly and were still talking trash and talking about how good they are (or are just doing that day). As long as everyone were to stay positive towards each other on both sides of the ball, I could feel like an equal even if I were beat by 30+.

[Kyle Berggren]

the last comment was key... A few years ago, maybe last year actually, Oregon beat PLU pretty badly early in their season (22-4 or something bad like that). After the game a few Oregon players actually asked for permission from the PLU coaches to pull some PLU players aside to help them with things such as faceoffs... Pretty classy move in my book, and the right way to win big. We've never done that, and very rarely even in my playing days would I give another player advice. Fortuneately the Oregon team found a way to do it that had no chance of coming across as cocky or arrogant. I hope we have the opportunity to do the same someday.

In years past, I've both played for teams that could run up the score, and coached them. I don't, and wouldn't want the heat taken off until the lead is 10, if it drops, we put the starters back in, or a mix to keep it even. Anything can happen, I've been apart of 8 & 10 goal come backs in the 4th, and on the recieving end. Our goal is always to get rookies and younger players goals and very involved when we can, as is pretty much the norm. All that said, its important to have your younger players in a position to succeed, regardless of the score of the game. Sometimes the team matchup can lead to a lopsided win, not talent, and younger players simply aren't appropriate. I know we're very concious of that at UPS and with the HS teams we help with in the Fall/Summer.

[Hi-Line Lax]

I can say that the exact moment of turn-around for our program was at the final whistle of a 25-2 (or something) beating in '04. Sometimes that's just what it takes to bring some change.

[Dan Wishengrad]

My opinion is that it's not so much about the score as it is about the WAY that score is arrived at. If a team with a big lead empties its bench, allowing reserves who seldom get to see playing time the opportunity to play, and these scrubs score a bunch of late goals then that is fine in my book. Or, if a team without depth just runs its offense patiently and allows only shots that result from assisted passes, that is not so bad either.

The unacceptable thing is to allow star players to stay in a "laugher" of a game only to "pad their stats", by continuing to dodge and shoot unassisted over a badly-overmatched opponent after an outcome has long been decided. Unfortunately we have seen that happen in the past.

[Dulax31]

What is the largest margin of victory in USL-MDIA history?

[Danny Hogan]

had to be TAMU vs. someone between 2000-2003, they went into the mid thirties a couple of times

[Saul C]

I think it was Auburn vs TAMU. That was at the tournament, so I don't know if that carries over to the regular season.

[Danny Hogan]

2002
Texas AM 35
TCU 4

[laxfan25]

One comment - with the amount of money that guys are paying to be on some teams (close to $2K I believe in some cases) I would certainly hope that the coach is rotating everyone in freely once it is apparent that a game is not going to be close. I wouldn't want to fork out that kind of money to just be a practice player.