SELC A Week 11 (4/6-4/12) Discuss, Predict, Report Scores…

[Hugh Nunn]

I agree with everyone that once you commit to a game you should follow that commitment through, but I also understand that this is still CLUB lacrosse and sometimes things fall through. I think Vandy is getting unfair criticism, especially when others have made numerous references to other games that were canceled and no one seems to care about those.

USC showed up to Clemson without even a whole team, then don't even show up to Tech, and Alabama just didn't even bother to show up to one of their games (this all being from what I've read posted on this thread) and no one has criticized either of these teams like everyone trashed on Vandy. While Vandy should be obligated to their commitments, I think the whole situation is/was blown out of proportion.

So why is that everyone rags on Vandy, but not the other teams that do the same thing they did? Is it because there's a lot of history?

The history doesn't help, but this is inexcuseable by any team.

IMHO, the SELC board needs to address this quickly and have measures in place for next season. If the SELC wants to be a premiere conference (and it can and will be) things like this need to be a thing of the past. Not out of fear of sanctions, but out of the level of organization and commitment of its member teams. Obviously this is not D1. Obviously club lacrosse takes a big backseat to other priorities like grades/classes, etc. But there are also very different levels of club lacrosse. Playing in the SELC should be tantamount to a commitment to that high level, be it A or B division.

Any team, in any division should have the sac to follow through with all lacrosse commitments. It's not as though the conference leadership doesn't send out the necessary information, list of responsibilities, and even reminders. It's not rocket science.

I yield the remainder of my time back to the floor.

[Tim Gray]

Were looking into Sunday afternoon in Gainesville for UF/UCF

[/quote]

was this game played?? or rescheduled??

[Larsen]

trying to re-schedule...

[Leachmtb]

The history doesn't help, but this is inexcuseable by any team.

IMHO, the SELC board needs to address this quickly and have measures in place for next season.

What needs to be addressed. The game was played. People are getting on Vandy (specifically) because of their history. I'm not saying that they don't have a reason to do so, because a lot has been done. But, ultimately, the only thing that is being debated here is intent (to try and cancel), because the action (playing the game) went through.

Previously, Sonny mentioned that it was wrong for Vandy to do this, and that ultimately, Vandy shouldn't be patted on the back for doing what they were obligated to do by league policy. I agree, they shouldn't be patted on the back. But, it does take a long time to change the culture of a team. Anyone who knows anything about leadership knows that change doesn't happen overnight, and as long as Vandy's actions (showing up for their obligations) are ok, then who cares how long it takes to change their intent.

Yes, it probably is disrespectful for some people to want to skip out on a game. But, enough respectful Vandy players and coaches showed up.

[Ken Lovic]

Addressed? I am confused as well, they played the game, the SELC is not going to rule on anything. I know we are going to write tighter restrictions on games scheduled for next year to avoid problems.


Leadership- Taylor
Actually, leadership can change over night. History and tradition take time to establish which is what Vandy has against them. Hard to look to the past and predict the future for this example, but I would venture to say it would be borderline if the Vandy of old would have come through like the Vandy of now did in clearing themselves from the UCF game. We are not patting them on the back, just happy they did not put themselves and the league in a bad spot.

I think Coach Jenner and the team leaders are on the right track of establishing them on the map and in the good graces of the SELC (they have to get off their probation as a new team).

That is where leadership takes place overnight. I know few programs where change occured overnight. Success may take time, but off the field is where the league is concerned. It was not that long ago that we were 4-12 but always were competitive, showed up, on time with payments, rosters etc... That is what we are concerned with ultimately. Teams are going to struggle on the field, and that is not what is important, if they struggle off the field then we have issues. It also a perception issue. We are looking to get farther and farther away from the "club" mentality and their sometimes is the shake down that we need to encounter.

Remember, there are other leagues people can play in if they do not like the policies we are putting in place to establish a league of repsectibility.

[ncsulacrosse]

why are people posting on here like the league board sits around not paying attention to things that are going on with teams? this stuff all gets sorted out at the end of this year, and in the fall next year at the meeting.

they do a great job, and have kept this league moving forward. if a team does something wrong, it is going to get taken care of, they don't need your posts on message boards to make that happen.

[Hugh Nunn]

The game and issue to which I was referring was USC not showing up for their game with Tech.

In that the Vandy game was played, They should obviously not be sanctioned. However, I doubt that pressure from the message board was responsible for that game happening. Rather, it was more likely phone calls or emails from the board.

I think the board does an outstanding job year in and year out, and puts together a quality product.

I don't know what the answer is, as far as teams not showing, because other teams have been made very public examples of recently and even this has not dissuaded the USC's of the world from blowing off games. I hate to identify a problem without also suggesting a fix, but this is a tough one. Maybe it can start with coaching. It seems that coaching, or lack thereof, plays a huge role in the number of games a team "misses." Maybe a team should not be allowed to participate in the postseason if there is not an official coach. Maybe there is a way more established coaches can be available to help mentor (for lack of a better word) newer coaches / programs. I'm not sure, but It's a shame that fifteen years after Sonny and the rest of the gang got the SELC going, issues like this are still such a problem.

Good luck with the rest of the season.

[Chris Larson]

In the UMLL we used to have quite a bit of trouble with forfeits/no-shows among our less organized teams. To combat it we instituted a policy that states (paraphrasing here)"..if a team forfeits or no-shows, they are on probation for that season and ineligible for that season's league tournament. If they forfeit/no-show again in the current season or the following season, they are expelled from the conference. " We have an appeals process in place for teams to explain extenuating circumstances.

Since the institution of this policy, we've had only one no-show which was due to weather issues.

Tough love is very effective.

[Catlax]

That is an excellent policy!

[ncsulacrosse]

2004-2005 team responsibilities:
#6) Must attend all scheduled regular season and trournement games.
Penalty: Forfeiture of any league game will make team ineligaible for post season competition and or other league awards. penetly may extend to subsequent seasons. forfeiting team ewill bear responsiblity for awny costs incurred related to contest forfeted fi time of forieture does not meet conference scheduling policy. (ton of spelling errors i'm sure, typed it out while looking down and reading it)

Catlax, stop posting about things you don't know about as i've said earlier. See the league does have policies in place. That is right out of the league handbook. So before you start being all "hey thats the greatest policy ever!" maybe you need to do some research and realize its the exact same policy your own league uses.

not to mention if a team is 0-10 taking away post season that year isn't exactly punishment. thats why the issues are handled in the fall at the meeting for the next year.

[Catlax]

NCSULacrosse- get a dictionary so you don't look like you come from a cow college. Oh wait a minute! In case you haven't guessed, I'm an alumnus, not a student. I don't have access to a handbook. I was basing my response on a post that Sonny made that said that missed games are non-contests, not forfeits. I figured he would be a reliable source!

And finally, stop telling me what to do. You're not smart enough to tell me what to do and your own post reflects that!

[OAKS]

check out
http://www.selc.org

along the left hand side is a link to the handbook

[Kyle Berggren]

the PNCLL has a similar policy.... However, we do not allow teams to schedule, or play games without a non-playing adult as a coach. There have been a lot fewer no shows when this happened, but I don't ever remember us having a major problem with it in the first place. I know as a coach, I would not schedule a team that wasted our time the next year. If it was a regular occurence, I'm sure the Board would terminate their membership.

Good luck with this guys. I know it has to be a tough situation.

[DoctorDru]

Dont want to sound like an ignoramus but what does IMHO stand for?

[CATLAX MAN]

In My Humble Opinion