2008 Lax World MCLA Division 1 Top 25 Poll (4/9/08) is out

[EvanFSU]

Until someone besides BYU, CSU, UCSB, SSU (Michigan gets historical respect too eventhough they have trouble in the tournament) make the Final 4 on a consistent basis, they won't get the same respect.

Florida State made it to the final 4 in 2005 and Oregon made it to the championship game just last year.

[TrainerDan]

Until someone besides BYU, CSU, UCSB, SSU (Michigan gets historical respect too eventhough they have trouble in the tournament) make the Final 4 on a consistent basis, they won't get the same respect.

Florida State made it to the final 4 in 2005 and Oregon made it to the championship game just last year.

Notice the word "consistent"...FSU and Oregon have not been consistent as of yet in reaching the Final Four. Kudos to them for their accomplishments but BYU, CSU, UCSB, SSU have dominated for several years. That fact cannot be argued!

[More Cowbell]

Until someone besides BYU, CSU, UCSB, SSU (Michigan gets historical respect too eventhough they have trouble in the tournament) make the Final 4 on a consistent basis, they won't get the same respect.

Florida State made it to the final 4 in 2005 and Oregon made it to the championship game just last year.

Notice the word "consistent"...FSU and Oregon have not been consistent as of yet in reaching the Final Four. Kudos to them for their accomplishments but BYU, CSU, UCSB, SSU have dominated for several years. That fact cannot be argued!

Still, that shouldn't give them a free ride to nationals every year. It isn't fair to newer teams that are working to build a program. When the traditional powers are given mulligans for bad losses while newer teams aren't, it creates a totally lopsided system that sets up traditional powers to succeed in the tournament.

[TrainerDan]

Until someone besides BYU, CSU, UCSB, SSU (Michigan gets historical respect too eventhough they have trouble in the tournament) make the Final 4 on a consistent basis, they won't get the same respect.

Florida State made it to the final 4 in 2005 and Oregon made it to the championship game just last year.

Notice the word "consistent"...FSU and Oregon have not been consistent as of yet in reaching the Final Four. Kudos to them for their accomplishments but BYU, CSU, UCSB, SSU have dominated for several years. That fact cannot be argued!

Still, that shouldn't give them a free ride to nationals every year. It isn't fair to the other teams that work their butts off when these traditional powers are given mulligans for bad losses and they aren't.

BYU has lost to Michigan (#1), Chapman (#2), UMD (#3), and Whittier. No bad losses there. CSU only has 1 bad loss (Utah) and a blowout loss to BYU and a tight loss to SSU but has a win over UMD, your precious BC, and Oregon. UCSB has 2 bad losses (FSU & Florida) but a close loss ASU and a quality win over SSU. SSU has a quality win over CSU and a close loss to SF (#5) and their worst loss is UCSB...Their resume's are solid.

Let's look at BC...your best MCLA wins are over FSU & Florida, which isn't saying a whole lot, and losses to Georgia, CSU, & UMD. The rest of the schedule is weak.

The big 4 make their case...that's why they are always there. Take a page from Duluth, Chapman, Simon Fraser, and go out and schedule and beat some of the big boys and you may earn that respect that you so desperately crave.

[Rob Graff]

No to Laxpower.

Laxpower should not be given a vote. Laxpower's rankings presume that each team will attempt to score the maximum points it can in every game. If that assumption is not correct, their system fails.

And the assumption does fail because not all teams do that - many will use games where they are comfortably ahead to develop younger players so that they will be ready to play in coming years. Using such players by definition does not "maximize points". Those wins are typically by less goals that Laxpower expects. And thus a team that does not win by "Enough" in laxpower's eyes will be downgraded.

Thus, using laxpower will force teams to do 2 things.

1. Aggressively run up the score.

2. Not play their younger players in an attempt to develop them.

Neither of these are positive outcomes to me, especially where I'm not aware of any real dispute about whether the proper teams have been invited to nationals.

[wheelz33]

Someone made the statement (sorry, I'm too lazy to go back and look) that Michigan receives the same benefit of the doubt and respect from pollsters that top RMLC and WCLL teams get, that other teams throughout the country do not. Can I ask, why? (PLEASE note, this does NOT mean I feel there #1 ranking is not warranted. This Michigan team I think is on a different level this year compared to previous years and will put an end to their tournament woes).

That being said, Michigan consistently has underachieved in the nationals AND conference tournaments. How did they get a pass to the always respected rankings that others teams are so desperately working towards? (I feel the need to repeat this, this is not meant as a slight against Michigan. They have an amazing team this year. Just wondering what they've done to join the elite over the years...)

[wheelz33]

Rob-

I agree with you. But doesn't laxpower have a correction for games decided by more then 10 goals? Not that this completely solves everything, but it helps...

[StickSideHigh]

Travelling should have no impact. It is the same distance from the west coast to the east coast as it is from the east coast to the west coast (many teams do it deal with it). And I have never heard of quality losses (someone can explain that to me). The argument on UCSB moving up with losses so be it. Other teams moved up with losses also. I agree there should be a weekly poll towards the end of the season, especially how this year is playing out. Anyway SELC fans get ready because if you do upset a "powerhouse" at the tourney it will be considered a fluke as always.

[IceBerg4586]

i dont understand all of you guys that are backing UCSB's ranking. would you guy this years florida basketball team a free ride to the national tournament because they won it back-to-back the last 2 years ... NO. the good thing about college sports is that you have to earn your stripes year in and year out. you dont ride the coat-tails of previous years. UCSB has been great in past years, this year they may not be up to their own standards, but giving them a top 10 ranking this year based on previous years result does not make any sense. The SELC has made great strides in the past 2-3 years becoming one of the better conferences in the MCLA. The voters should respect the fact that the competition within the SELC is just as good as the WCLL this year.

Unfortunately some people on this forum are too naive to respect the fact that there is a growing amount of parity between the top 10-25 teams in the country. Thats just the way this year has gone. everyone is going to continue to argue about the rankings until the NC when teams will be able to back up what their fans are saying. But until then, please stop thinking that one team DESERVES to be ranked higher than another simple because they won the NC 3 or 4 years ago. A bi-weekly poll is exactly that, BI-WEEKLY. It should be primarily based on how the teams performed in the 2 week span and the previous weeks rankings, not how they have performed in the past 5 years

[More Cowbell]

BYU has lost to Michigan (#1), Chapman (#2), UMD (#3), and Whittier. No bad losses there. CSU only has 1 bad loss (Utah) and a blowout loss to BYU and a tight loss to SSU but has a win over UMD, your precious BC, and Oregon. UCSB has 2 bad losses (FSU & Florida) but a close loss ASU and a quality win over SSU. SSU has a quality win over CSU and a close loss to SF (#5) and their worst loss is UCSB...Their resume's are solid.

Let's look at BC...your best MCLA wins are over FSU & Florida, which isn't saying a whole lot, and losses to Georgia, CSU, & UMD. The rest of the schedule is weak.

The big 4 make their case...that's why they are always there. Take a page from Duluth, Chapman, Simon Fraser, and go out and schedule and beat some of the big boys and you may earn that respect that you so desperately crave.

You can't be serious with this post. First of all, don't act like just because I have a BC logo on my name that I have been overly bias or actively pumping them up more than anyone else. I never said that BC should be ahead of all of the traditional powers, I simply said that their history should not be considered when positioning them in a poll.

Now, turning to your example, can you please explain to me how UCSB and Sonoma have "made their case" better than BC has? SB lost to 2 teams that BC beat (but it wasnt saying a whole lot when BC beat them....for some unexplained reason...) I also like how you bring up the ASU "close loss" like its a good thing, but neglect to mention that BC's loss to CSU was also close. Guess that's not important to you...

Turning to Sonoma...since when does 1 win over a top team "make your case" for nationals? They beat CSU, ok. So by your logic, has FSU also made their case? They did, afterall, have a big win over a top team in UCSB, and apparently that's enough to grant a nationals berth, right?

As far as BC goes, I'm not going to argue where they should be in the poll, but i will argue with your "logic" concerning them. Why are wins against top 15 teams "not saying much." It can't be because these teams are overrated, because they both beat UCSB, who you seem to think has locked up a spot at nationals. Now to BC's losses....the loss to Georgia was bad, I guess...but not as bad as CSU's loss to Utah. Georgia has been ranked in the top 15-20 all season. How is that a terrible loss for BC? Also, according to you, a loss to UMD isn't a bad one (at least it wasnt for your precious BYU.) So really, BC doesn't have any terrible losses. And OK, the rest of BC's schedule may not be great....I guess they should have gone out and built up the strength of the other PCLL teams that they play. You're really going to punish a team that took 3 road trips this season for having a weak in conference schedule?? Please.

Please let me know if I'm way off base here....I wouldnt want to be blinded by my devotion to my precious BC...

[baseballislame]

the big four? are you serious? you should start your own league since nobody can compete with you. and start your own forum while your at it so we don't have to listen to you talk again.

[westcoastlax]

Turning to Sonoma...since when does 1 win over a top team "make your case" for nationals? They beat CSU, ok. So by your logic, has FSU also made their case? They did, afterall, have a big win over a top team in UCSB, and apparently that's enough to grant a nationals berth, right?


Please let me know if I'm way off base here....I wouldnt want to be blinded by my devotion to my precious BC...

I think FSU has made a case to make nationals, along with Florida. Those wins over SB are huge. The facts are that all of these SELC teams and BC are in the 10-16 range, and one win over a powerhouse team is enough to get the Floridas' into the tournament, but those other teams are all on the bubble because they don't have quality wins against high enough ranked opponents to bump them up past anyone else.

You don't earn respect from mediocre wins, you earn it from big wins over highly ranked opponents, or at least making it a close loss.

Oregon used to get no repect from anyone, then they started playing close games against big teams, then eventually beating those teams and playing in the national championship game. If they continue to play at that level they will get respect as a powerhouse program, if they trail off then they will fall back into the middle level, but they made the first step by winning big games in multiple seasons. Until all these teams who want respect do what Chapman, ASU, and UMD are doing they aren't gonna get it

[tmatlacrosse]

I haven't been on this forum until tonight and I have been on one heck of a roller coaster as I have read from page 1 to page 6. People continue to bring up points to back this team or that conference, but the logic never truly supports a strong argument. I just want to point out some things that have bothered me about some arguments, not only this year, but in year's past.

1) When does location, climate, or weather show favortism in a loss or win. Coast to coast, rain or shine, a win is a win and loss is a loss. I pray that voters don't feel bad for a team that had to travel from the Atlantic to the Pacific of visa versa. I was tired of the UMD crap I read last year about cold, sleet, and rain. Now it's the coastal travel?

2) A win is a win and loss is a loss. Hopkins has lost three games in overtime, but on the loss column it does not show (OT loss). I don't care if UF lost to Chapman by 11 and I don't care that UCSB only lost by one. It doesn't matter. Why are people trying to weigh the validity of a team by scores. What other collegiate sports poll runs by these principles?

3) No team should be shunned from a certain ranking because they don't have "tenure" in the national spotlight of this league. Why must people continually refer to the "Auburn Disaster Of 02!" Why should teams schedule games from coast to coast if we aren't going to give credit where credit is due? Does the history of this league mean that we can't have a Ohio State and Miami of 02 happen? Nothing is impossible.

4) The teams, that I believe, have some of the best arguments for higher positions is BC and (no one has mentioned) Virginia Tech. Their rankings reflect something that I have noticed a lot in the polls. Early losses in the MCLA are like F's for your GPA. If you lose a bad game early you are going to take forever to move back up. VT has one loss to, now a top 25 team, and rattled off 11 straight wins, yet they are 14th? Forget the season opener, where is their 9 or 10 ranking? The same is for BC. Early season loss, but to UGA. Yes they lost to teams they "should have lost to" but so did others. Now BC is paying for that early season UGA loss.

5) I don't think we need a weekly poll. It's just going to give forum writers more to whine about. If there is problem with identifying who should be in the tournament a the end of each year, then I would say we need a weekly poll. But who cares where each team is ranked each week? Maybe there is a tough time identifying where everyone should be ranked right now, but this poll has NO IMPACT on who gets to the tournament. That's why the whole season is played right? We could go without any polls at all and still determine who are the top 16 teams at the end of the year. Let's not make the life of the pollsters that much more stressful.

[OAKS]

That being said, Michigan consistently has underachieved in the nationals AND conference tournaments.

They've won 7 of the last 9 CCLA conference championships - I'd say that's a pretyt high level of achievement .

[benji]

That being said, Michigan consistently has underachieved in the nationals AND conference tournaments.

They've won 7 of the last 9 CCLA conference championships - I'd say that's a pretyt high level of achievement .

No offense to the CCLA meant at all ... but who (in-conference) has Michigan had to contend with? Not taking away from Michigan by any means ... they're undefeated and have done so playing great out-of-conference opponents.

All I'm saying is that the combined record for the CCLA this year (minus Michigan) is 38-46.

Fun fact: Including Michigan in the overall record puts the CCLA over .500 (48-46) thus making the Wolverines accountable for over 20% of CCLA wins.