Obama's Race Speech

[CPLaxGM]

You are the proverbial horse standing at the watering hole dying of thirst. I might as well as argue with a person that believes contrails are a government plot to poison us.

No. I'm the literal person sitting at his computer waiting for an answer to a (relatively) simple question. You might as well continue arguing with the dining room wall because it won't question your assumptions - something you are clearly used to.

Well, since you've spent five years with your head buried in the sand, you're going to have a lot of reading to do. I'd start with the books of just about every former Bush official that's left the administration, but I suppose that would be too much trouble for you.

Luckily, some people have taken the time to compile a good portion of the Bush administration's lies and misleading statements regarding the Iraq war, 935 of them to be exact. Here's the link:
http://www.publicintegrity.org/WarCard/

I will be waiting patiently for your documented refutation of each the 935 instances. Or of course, it will be a lot easier to just dismiss the entire study out of hand as more left wind media spin (that seems to be the best argument to fall back on when there's nothing else to grasp).

[Zeuslax]

None of these examples are equivalent to Sen. Obama's situation concerning Rev. Wright.

Shouldn't be a problem until you run for president. On a side note, is it mandatory for grandmothers to be intolerant? I know my grandmother (RIP) was.

I obviously exaggerated with my examples, but I think they are valid. The analogies are worth discussing in the context of this conversation. The point was that birds of a feather don't always flock together and sometimes the apple does fall far from the tree. Your friends, family and spiritual advisors can and will all say things you don't agree with from time to time.

It sincerely doesn't sound like Rev Wright's sermons are consistently left field like the material we've seen. If they were Obama would be done! These statements were grandiose, not typical and as a result they were rejected and denounced. Not many are saying other wise, including Obama. I'm sure if Rev Wright's Sunday morning sermons were consistently like the ones we've seen recently. Was Obama standing and cheering at this sermon, was he high fiving those around him……..did we get a big A-M-E-N?

Obama would have run for the hills a long time ago to create as much distance as possible if this was the norm. He is a senator after all and you don't get to that position by being stupid. This is a gotcha society and we have a gotcha media. The politics are amazingly polarizing and this gotcha mentality has spread into our normal conversations about politics.

At this time, I tend to believe that his speech was one of honesty. He didn’t hide from the attacks or try to sweep anything under the rug. We have a man that is in an amazing position to speak on the subject of race like we’ve never seen before. It will probably be a terribly long time until someone else can come along that has the clout, the ability and the background that he has to speak on the subject. His background (fortunately or unfortunately) provides credence to both white and black Americans by creating space to allow him to be a conduit.

[Adam Gamradt]

Jac wrote: "The liberals on this board will try to muddy the argument by reflexively bringing Bush into this discussion, and that's fine. They will also try to make this a religious issue, which it is not. It's one of simple association. If Obama believes what Wright is preaching, he should stand by him. If he doesn't, he should comletely disassociate himself."

Does this mean that because I disagree with Mr. Coyne, I should cancel my subscription to Inside Lacrosse?

[Sonny]

Let's not make this personal fellas.

Please debate the topic at hand, not the poster.

Thanks.

[Adam Gamradt]

I certainly intended no personal insult with my question. Jac is a good writer, and I love Inside Lacrosse. I think my question is logically related, given the discussion point raised by Mr. Coyne.

It's Sonny's site however, so he's allowed to decide what is a personal attack and what is not.

I think if you must dump a mentor or friend for doing or saying something unpopular (or even stupid!), then we'd all have a lot fewer mentors and friends, including a lot of people on this board, myself included. Now that was one kludge of a sentence, but hopefully you get my drift.

[onpoint]

Jac might in fact love for you to cancel your IL subscription! US Lacrosse is a different story.

[Adam Gamradt]

Oops. I thought I read his work in IL. Once again, you're on point!

[Jana]

Obama's relationship to his church pastor is fairly straightforward. I've gone to plenty of churches over the years where I didn't agree with everything my pastor said on the pulpit.

I'm pretty sure there are Catholics out there who are pro-choice, pro-gay-marriage and pro-birth control, yet still attend mass. I think the press could easily draw a similar conclusion "why on earth does John Kerry attend a Catholic Church when he says he's going to vote pro-choice, support gay marriage rights, and restore funding for Planned Parenthood?"

And yes, ALL 4 of my grandparents said things that made me cringe as a kid - the set in Pittsburgh seemed to know the most slurs against Jews, Blacks, and Eastern Europeans, and the set in Seattle seemed to know the most slurs against various Asian cultures.

But I still loved them, and would stil visit them today if they were alive, even if the media followed me around day and night.

[Dan Wishengrad]

Obama's relationship to his church pastor is fairly straightforward. I've gone to plenty of churches over the years where I didn't agree with everything my pastor said on the pulpit.

I'm pretty sure there are Catholics out there who are pro-choice, pro-gay-marriage and pro-birth control, yet still attend mass. I think the press could easily draw a similar conclusion "why on earth does John Kerry attend a Catholic Church when he says he's going to vote pro-choice, support gay marriage rights, and restore funding for Planned Parenthood?"

And yes, ALL 4 of my grandparents said things that made me cringe as a kid - the set in Pittsburgh seemed to know the most slurs against Jews, Blacks, and Eastern Europeans, and the set in Seattle seemed to know the most slurs against various Asian cultures.

But I still loved them, and would stil visit them today if they were alive, even if the media followed me around day and night.

All good points Jana, but I believe you are missing the bigger picture. Karl Rove and the Swift-Boaters have nothing tangible to attack Obama directly on. They see huge turnout on the Democratic side in state after state and no candidate of their own that the "true believers" will flock behind enthusiastically. The war will be THE big issue and it is a loser for the Republicans in 2008. Their best hope of re-taking the White House -- a vicious, negative anti-Hillary attack campaign -- won't work if she doesn't win the Democratic nomination. So they will make as much hay as they can against BO in any way they can, and fan the flames on hate-radio and FIXED-News with whatever indirect smears they can on Senator Obama's character.

But when all is said and done this November, two decent, honorable and intelligent U.S. senators will faceoff in the general election, with the debacle of Iraq as the dominant campaign issue. One candidate will be running on a pledge to continue the war, which he says was just, and the U.S. to continue this involvement for the next 50 to 100 years. The other will run on consistent opposition to the war from the beginning and the need to pull our troops out. And America will decide.

The folks who vote against Obama because his former pastor said some hateful things from the pulpit were never going to vote for any Democrat anyway.

[OAKS]

Take a quick gander at Reverend Wright's service record.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi- ... 2000.story