Central's Coach

[Gvlax]

I have heard rumors from some so-so credible sources that Central Michigan's Coach quit. Any truth to this?

[oaklandlax]

i have heard the same kinda. I heard the CMU players let the coach go.

[A.J. Stevens]

i have heard the same kinda. I heard the CMU players let the coach go.

And everyone wonders why coaches won't move to State U to coach a MCLA team. The players can not have the ability to fire the coach during the season. Every team should make an effort to not give the players termination ability. Good luck getting a quality coach on the sideline anytime soon. This is not aimed at Central but is something that comes up when I try to tell potential coaches they should try the MCLA.

[Mikelaw84]

Given that the majority of MCLA teams are run and funded by the players themselves I see no reason why the players should at least have some say in the hiring/termination process of their coaches. Granted there needs to be involvement from within rec-sports/athletics depending upon the schools situation. Taking all say so out of the student athletes hands to me would take something away from what traditional club sports are founded on.

[Sonny]

Given that the majority of MCLA teams are run and funded by the players themselves I see no reason why the players should at least have some say in the hiring/termination process of their coaches. Granted there needs to be involvement from within rec-sports/athletics depending upon the schools situation. Taking all say so out of the student athletes hands to me would take something away from what traditional club sports are founded on.

Unless a coach is doing something illegal or unethical, that decision should be made after the season is concluded.

No one is arguing that there shouldn't be some student input on the coaching staff, but stuff like this happens it gives MCLA teams and conferences (who constantly strive for legitimacy & mainstream press) a black eye.

[Mikelaw84]

I agree, my bad for not clarifying this process occur in the off-season.

[John Paul]

Taking all say so out of the student athletes hands to me would take something away from what traditional club sports are founded on.

Changing what traditional club sports were founded on is exactly what the MCLA is here for. We are supposed to be a an organization of coach-run, coach-driven teams. Without that, the term "virtual varsity" that is thrown around a lot doesn't mean nearly as much.

I agree that athletes, at any level, should have some input into the hiring and firing of coaches. However, no team can run at its best if the same guy who is running the organization, and most importantly deciding who is even on the team through recruiting, tryouts and disciplinary situations, can be fired by the same group he is making those decisions about. It's a clear conflict of interest.

Hiring and firing should be handled by an outside group, whether that's an official university office (Rec. Sports, Athletics, etc.) or an official alumni or booster group. Student athletes should have a grievance process to report to this group if necessary and should have a minority role on a search committee.

Sonny is right. We need to stop thinking of ourselves from a club perspective. I don't think any of us expect all MCLA teams to get to what I've described overnight, but that should be the goal - and in the meantime coaches need to be very wary of what they are signing up for.

(None of my post has anything to do with the Central Michigan situation. I don't know enough details to have an opinion on how that team is run. I do agree with Sonny, however, that it's another knock on how we are all perceived.)

[Mikelaw84]

I completely agree the goal of all MCLA and club lacrosse teams in general should be to operate as you indicate. With the growth of the sport it is a necessity that the system work towards legitimacy of all its programs.

That said, as you all know all to well, only a percentage of teams can currently operate under this idealized system. Many teams do not have the alumni and booster support of many top programs and many of the school administrators know little of the sport given the geographical locations of traditional MCLA schools.

Until the level of growth reaches a level where programs have the resources to run a functional "virtual varsity" program, students must remain an integral and, in many cases, lead roles in the hiring/termination process of their coaches.

Now, that being said please keep in mind I don't agree with letting go of a qualified good standing coach mid season or for arbitrary reasons. I also acknowledge that even when such "virtual varsity" status has been achieved , student athletes should remain a central figure in these choices. The sooner school administrators, athletic dept.'s and so forth get involved with our MCLA programs the better, and in many cases they already have.

[Ryan Hanavan]

Changing what traditional club sports were founded on is exactly what the MCLA is here for. We are supposed to be a an organization of coach-run, coach-driven teams. Without that, the term "virtual varsity" that is thrown around a lot doesn't mean nearly as much.

I agree that athletes, at any level, should have some input into the hiring and firing of coaches. However, no team can run at its best if the same guy who is running the organization, and most importantly deciding who is even on the team through recruiting, tryouts and disciplinary situations, can be fired by the same group he is making those decisions about. It's a clear conflict of interest.

Hiring and firing should be handled by an outside group, whether that's an official university office (Rec. Sports, Athletics, etc.) or an official alumni or booster group. Student athletes should have a grievance process to report to this group if necessary and should have a minority role on a search committee.

I agree with Sonny and John 100% on this issue and would love to see the MCLA break away from the traditional club sports image. However, I actually have to sign a coaching contract every year with our club sports office that gives full authority to the club president and student members to remove me any time. This is something I've worked hard on changing but our club sports office will not budge because they consider all clubs (snowboarding, chess, birding, fly fishing, lacrosse, etc.) equals.

This creates a dangerous situation and my players could get together today and vote me out for any reason they decided on.

[NELAX21]

This is something I've worked hard on changing but our club sports office will not budge because they consider all clubs (snowboarding, chess, birding, fly fishing, lacrosse, etc.) equals.

This creates a dangerous situation and my players could get together today and vote me out for any reason they decided on.

I think most teams/coaches are in the same position with the rec departments, they see it that its the club that is paying them so they have control over if they want them or not. Unless it is the actual rec department that is paying them, then they pretty much just want to stay out of it.

Has anyone found a way around this? It seems like it would be a liability to the rec department to fire someone that they are not even paying.

Also, i am not saying that i like that the clubs have the power to fire coaches, i have played on a team that fired a coach mid season because the team didnt like him, and it pretty much took 2 and a half years to even some what recover, and we still are. I just dont really see anyway that we could operate differently.

Any ideas or things that have worked for other schools?

[oaklandlax]

I also agree 100% with Sonny and JP, that being said are the rumors true about CMU, and if so I thought you must have a full time coach to compete in the D1 level in the CCLA and other leagues?

[Gvlax]

I also agree 100% with Sonny and JP, that being said are the rumors true about CMU, and if so I thought you must have a full time coach to compete in the D1 level in the CCLA and other leagues?

I hear that they gave the job immediately over to their assistant coach.

[Zeuslax]

I thought you must have a full time coach to compete in the D1 level in the CCLA and other leagues?

Every team in the CCLA (D2 & D1) must have a coach. He/She should be an adult and the primary point of contact. The coach is not required to be full time.

[John Paul]

I certainly recognize the challenges. All of our programs (ours included) have been there.

Two suggestions:

1. Work toward establishing a tiered recreational sports department that differentiates between the club teams that want to follow a virtual varsity model and those that don't. That's not an easy process, but it's been done here and other places.

2. Form an outside organization (booster club, alumni council, advisory board) that has responsibilities to oversee some aspects of the team, such as budget and spending, coaching hires, etc.

Ultimately, convincing your rec. sports department that there is benefit to your student athletes and to the department in having professional, consistent leadership for the team is needed. In the meantime, it's important that team student leadership are 100% committed to supporting anyone they hire throughout a season.

[bmorelax]

For years and years I've read posts from the "Brass" of the MCLA about operating on a their virtual varsity level. JP, from time to time you chime in with extemely valuable knowledge and advise on how to get there.

Is there currently any place that the teams that wish to get to this point but don't have the know how can go besides these forums? Why not a convention that goes beyond the traditional lax conventions in Baltimore or philly that teach lax strategy but gear it more towards the needs of teams in the MCLA.

Contact me if you have any interest in this initiative.