all conference chat once again

[JaMoms]

alright so heres the deal, since everyone can't seem to look past the numbers here are some. so i did a couple on my own to help settle people's minds about the all conf debate. after the regular and playoff seasons the top three teams in te league were UMD, UofM, and St. Olaf. Real key to keep in mind that UMD players play realistically 60% at the most if the get lucky throughout a UMLL game, where the rest of the UMLL (outside the U) does not sub starters, and not haveing subs ahs literally nothin to do with it. Think of the numbers if UMD's didn't play half the game....frightening i know.

For the attack I have taken the total points against the other two top teams in the conference to determine the spots. the points only total the UMLL regular season games as thats what all conf is determined by.

First Attack
UMD-Nelson 10 (4 to u, 6 to olaf) (half games)
UMD-Mithun 10 (5 to both) (half games)
UMD-Wishart 7 (3 to u, 4 to olaf) (half games)

Second Attack
UofM- Bice 6 (1 to UMD, 5 to olaf)
Olaf- Mac 4 (1 to UMD, 3 to the u) (full games)
Olaf- Olson 2 (shut out by UMD, 2 to the u) (full games)

A first team player must perform against the top teams in the conference and UMD's players did that.

the mids are lil different my total UMLL points

First Mids
UMD- Goertz 17 points
UMD- Klossner 14 points

Tough decision from the rest but check out individual games if you want

UMD- Pitzl 11 points
ISU- Nagan 13 points (zero to umd)
UWSP- Fast 16 points
SCSU- Snyder 15 points (zero to umd)
Quette- Hunt 14 points

Defense has to be the three starter's for UMD, no one else comes close
UMD-Nesser
UMD-Zeibol
UMD-Frykman

best checks and d I faced this year was in practice, and they shut down competition one on one all year.

Goalie is none other than UMD jake launert as he should be frist team all american goalie, no question for first all conf

second team goalie UofM-Hutchison no doubt

fogo is for sure UMD ryan groom who literally went 2 final games without losing a face off, check the books, and it was against third place olaf. dominated all umll and didnt really see anyone contest him. also wingman help, but if u ever watch him face off, its him getting the ball.

second team fogo: don't know who comes behind groom, havent seen others against others so im not gonna say on lack of background.

LSM is a toss up between UMD braig brown, UMD Garret Becker, UofM pat albersman, they are all stellar.


the numbers do not lie, and they seem to match up pretty well to what is a fair all conference ballad. i imagine there are some protestors to this as usual with the heavy UMD, Olaf, and UofM players, but not to stir the stew but thats where the skill is and where the best players are. best players are on the best teams, and this past weekend shows that.

ya i play for umd, but numbers do not lie, and they are unbiased

[garvinjj]

Coming from the B division I have little time to check out A games but I know what type of team UMD always produces as I've seen the numbers over the past four years I've played in the UMLL-B. As a former high school teammate, I just wanted to put my personal vote in (as I did with UWEC's team vote) for Ryan Groom. I saw his skill and ability growing as a high schooler and only wish more teams could find FOGO's with his speed and adaptability.

Also, even though the votes are not finalized, I would like to congratulate all the players who are selected, and good luck to the teams representing the UMLL A and B in Texas. Bring home a title for all of us.

[Mavlax25]

but the facts are that they didn't get those points that you say they could have. Sure they may only play 60% of the time, but that is how your program works. You get younger players more experience so that then they are seniors or are good enough to start they can get in 60% of the time. The "numbers" that you are pointing out are speculation. Who knows what would happen if they were kept in 100% of the game. Possibly an injury, or possibly they could have scored 100 points. But again it's not what actrually happend. What happend is exactly what is shown in the leader boards.

Not saying thats how the voting should be done by any means, stats don't say everything. To me a person that gets an All Conference award doesn't always score the most goals, sometimes it is the player that leads his team when they are down 2 goals to a victory, or someone that time after time motivates his team to make sure they do the small things right.

~Hurm~

[LaxRef]

all conference ballad

Can you post an MP3 of this?

[JaMoms]

whoa now, they did get those points i stated they did. those are JUST with half games. i speculated nothing, those stats are accurate and on the money no estimates

sooooo ur saying that since we sub in the respect of the league and our teammates that... sucks for us, too bad, deal with it? hmm

and the half game thing is a pretty easy concept and merely something to take note of. if points are going to be a determining factor, playing time inorder to earn those points has to come into consideration otherwise its a faulty means of measuring.

[Npaulseth]

I think the point that is trying to be made here is this: UMD attackmen score the most points per minute out of any attackmen in the UMLL.

Is this correct?

[JaMoms]

nope, my point is that the UMD attackmen performed the best against the top teams of the conference, thats why they are on the first team above

[Blake Randolph]

The UMD players also have the more talented players around them, and a better system in which they play. I think that People need to realize just because you play the whole game and score more points against lower level umll teams doesn't make you not as good. It is how much those wins mean for your team and what the player means to his team. I definetly believe one if not two of the st olaf players derserves to be first team all confrence. I think duluth is a outstanding team, but its not fair to overlook great players on other teams, and then have a whole all confrence team of duluth and u of m players when other teams have players who made huge impacts for their teams.

[schelitzche]

As a UMD alum, I actually have to agree about getting some other players on the top All-conf teams. Yes, I think this year is different with Duluth because they DO have enough guys who are great players to take most spots on the first teams. With that said, I also believe that for Olaf to put up the numbers they did, they must have had players who can play. The key difference is, and at no fault to UMD, that these other players are playing with guys who sometimes can't catch and throw! Its much easier to score when you have players who can feed, its much easier to assist when you have players who know how and when to cut, its much easier to run fast breaks when you have a goalie who can outlet the ball on a dime, etc, etc.....

Not really sure what my point is here but just wanted to pipe in on this topic!

[Champ]

nope, my point is that the UMD attackmen performed the best against the top teams of the conference, thats why they are on the first team above

The way NPaulseth said it is also correct based on the way you worded everything.

Anyways,
A) For this to work, you need to determine if you want to put simply the best players on this, put the guys who can make the most difference or just base it solely off points. Since teams play the rest of the league and not just UMD, you can't just say so and so didn't score 3+ points vs. UMD so he's not legit.

B) Knowing how the system works to determine who gets AC's, at least one STO attack will be up there. From my understanding, a list of players are submitted each and every game by opposing teams coach(s) and then at the end of the year results get tabulated. I think there might be some kind of voting or overruling system in place but not sure. Now since the STO guy has made an impact in almost every single game, he most likely will have been submitted every single game.

I personally would base it on who is the guy I'd want on my summer league team

[Mavlax25]

so does anyone know when the AC list will be posted?

[JaMoms]

I think that People need to realize just because you play the whole game and score more points against lower level umll teams doesn't make you not as good.


and that makes you better then? no, it means nothin performances against the top teams in the conf matter. note the origianl thread above and see who performed at the first team caliber. sure olaf, ya had a great year (w/e) but like stated all over this thread by others, UMD/UofM has more talent, everyone is admitting it but overlooking it.


ill be content once someone explains how olaf's reg season performances against the u and umd justify first team AC honors. their perfromances represent second team material well and they are still getting recognized for what they did throughout the season.

[fischman]

Obvioulsy UMD and UofM have more talent. They are by far and away the best teams in the conference. However, the best players can still come from different teams. I honestly believe that our best players, some of the D-poles from Stevens Point (#10?? he is as good as anybody) and some of the shooters from Cloud and Mankato could eaisly be stars on Duluth and UofM. Its just that the other teams in the conference don't have an entire team of standout players like UMD and UM. However, they DO have some standout players.

About the playing time...

Duluth and MN attack have the ball almost the entire game. Does that mean they are dominating the game... ABSOLUTELY. But they are dominating it as a team (the best way to dominate... but means nothing for AC). If the ball was in the hands of Olaf's or UWSP's attack with talented midfielders like that of Duluth the whole game... wow. If all D-poles on a team were like #10 form UWSP, they would be unstoppable. The fact is, AC is about the individual, not the team.

Nobody is disputing the fact that UMD is the best team. They have the best collection of players and coaches far and away. Nobody would disagree that ANY of the UMD or UofM players should be nominated for AC consideration... but that list HAS to include players from other teams. The best players from other teams in the conference WOULD be stars on UMD... I am fairly certain of that.

[DwinsChamps]

I agree with the general theme of fischman's remarks.

Surely those in charge of determining the all-conference team take some sort of intangible factor into account...right?

[Champ]

JaMoms, you need to go re-read my last post.

The decisions are made as I stated in part B of my post. It's not just some dude sitting there saying so and so shouldn't be on team A because he didn't put up huge numbers against UMD or UM. The list is comprised of all the players playing against all the teams, not just how they play against the best. It sounds like the STO guy (sorry I don't know names) did very well for Olaf and was an impact player. He helped the team do very well, he did very well against majority of the teams in the league - and put up more points because of it. This is why he should earn a spot on AC - A team.

P.S. the AC's will NEVER be fair for everyone. Someone will always be left out or be there that shouldn't be.

P.P.S. who are you?