CCLA - B Play-Offs

[Andy Sharp]

I've done some forecasting and can see that there are likely to be issues when it comes to determining who makes the CCLA-B tournament and how the teams are ranked.

We've still got several very important games ahead and want to start this thread to make sure the ramifications of these games are clear.

Let's make it clear which games will be figured into standings. There still appears to be confusion as to which games count from the discussion of un-required games back in September, when we had to draw names twice. I've heard that there were 2 teams that each team didn't need to play and Taylor is the only team who is not playing 7 or 8 conference games. Are these extra games dropped from figuring the standings?

At Calvin, since we are scheduled to play all 8 CCLA-B teams, I am not sure which 2 games were not required. Anyone have a record of these match-ups?

The other unclear situation is Ball State, it's been clear that they are not going to be in the B tournament, but do games against them still count when figuring standings?

Also, if a game gets rained out and can not be played, how does that figure into the standings if not every team has played the same number of games? Is it done by wins or winning percentage?

Ball State: 4W - 1L (2 Games Left)
Ferris: 3W - 1L (4 Games Left)
Calvin: 3W - 2L (3 Games Left)
Indiana-PA: 2W - 0L (4 Games Left)
Taylor: 2W - 1L (3 Games Left)
GVSU: 2W - 2L (3 Games Left)
Grove City: 1W - 2L (4 Games Left)
MI-Dearborn: 1W - 6L (1 Game Left)
Hope: 0W - 3L (4 Games Left)

FYI: according to Dwayne Hicks, in the past, the tiebreakers were:
0) CCLA Record
1) head to head
2) best record within the conference
3) goal differential
4) goals against (this was being discussed but not ratified)

[gcclax33]

I'd also like to know how the playoffs will work exactly.

Grove City's games that aren't considered our "conference schedule" are

Taylor
Ferris State

I'm assuming our game against Ball St., since it is in our "conference schedule" will count toward our conference record, but I would like some clarification.

If anybody else knows what games aren't part of their conference schedule, it would help greatly to know how the playoffs were going to shake out.

Evan Feinberg
Grove City College

[Andy Sharp]

Here is my best guess as to the Non-Conference Conference Games

Ball State - Hope, Calvin
Calvin - Ball State, Ferris
Ferris - Calvin, Grove City
GVSU - Indiana-PA, MI-Dearborn
Grove City - Ferris, Taylor
Hope - Ball State, MI-Dearborn
Indiana-PA - GVSU, Taylor
MI-Dearborn - GVSU, Hope
Taylor - Grove City, Indiana-PA

Discarding the games listed above, each team has 6 games that count towards the conference standings. Here is what I have so far then:

Calvin: 4W - 1L (1 Game Left vs: Taylor 4/16)
Ferris: 3W - 1L (2 Games Left vs: GVSU 4/14, Indiana-PA 4/23)
Indiana-PA: 2W - 0L (4 Games Left vs: Ball State 4/16, Hope 4/16, Grove City 4/20, Ferris 4/23)
Taylor: 2W - 1L (3 Games Left vs: Calvin 4/16, GVSU 4/22, Hope 4/23)
GVSU: 1W - 2L (3 Games Left vs: Ferris 4/14, Hope TBD, Taylor 4/22)
Grove City: 1W - 2L (3 Games Left vs: Hope 4/16, Ball State 4/16, Indiana-PA 4/20)
Hope: 0W - 2L (4 Games Left vs: Grove City 4/16, Indiana-PA 4/16, GVSU TBD, Taylor 4/23)
MI-Dearborn: 0W - 6L (0 Games Left)

I assume like Evan pointed out the Ball State games do count in the standings, otherwise some would only have 5 games.

[Andy Sharp]

Looking ahead, we could see a worst case scenario of 6 teams with records of 4 wins and 2 losses. How much would that suck to have every seed determined by a tie-breaker and two teams not in the play-offs with records the same as the four teams above them?

[Dwayne Hicks]

Guys:

Let me get through Wednesday and I will check my notes from the September meeting as far as what was decided in regard to the play-offs and the criteria.

I'll have something for you on Thursday.

...And yes, Andy, that would suck for two teams.

Dwayne

[umdlacrosse]

I know I'm coming late to the party, but how exactly does this non-conference conference business work? Why don't all conference games count? If some do and some don't what is the criteria for deciding which is which? Admittedly, I didn't get hired until December, so I wasn't at the Fall meeting, and thus may be the only one here that is confused. Please humor me and fill me in on what I'm missing. Thanks.

[Andy Sharp]

I know I'm coming late to the party, but how exactly does this non-conference conference business work? Why don't all conference games count? If some do and some don't what is the criteria for deciding which is which? Admittedly, I didn't get hired until December, so I wasn't at the Fall meeting, and thus may be the only one here that is confused. Please humor me and fill me in on what I'm missing. Thanks.

I agree, it's rather confusing, that's why I am trying to get at least something out on the table, so we can sort things out.

Back in September we drew team names out of a hat for 2 teams that would not have to be scheduled, in hopes of easing our already tough to schedule short seasons.

Some teams scheduled all 8 teams anyway (Calvin, Dearborn, Ferris) and others (Taylor and Indiana) only found slots to schedule the 6 required teams. Those extra games do not count towards your conference record, though I wonder if they would count towards the head-to-head tie breaker.

Hopefully Dwayne and Owen can clear things up for us soon.

[Andy Sharp]

Updated Standings as of 4/16

Indiana - PA: 4W - 0L (2 Games Left vs : Grove City 4/20, Ferris 4/23)
Calvin: 5W - 1L (0 Games Left vs : Done)
Ferris: 4W - 1L (1 Games Left vs : Indiana-PA 4/23)
Taylor: 2W - 2L (2 Games Left vs : GVSU 4/22, Hope 4/23)
Grove City: 2W - 3L (1 Games Left vs : Indiana-PA 4/20)
GVSU: 1W - 3L (2 Games Left vs : Hope TBD, Taylor 4/22)
Hope: 0W - 4L (2 Games Left vs : GVSU TBD, Taylor 4/23)
MI - Dearborn: 0W - 6L (0 Games Left vs : Done)

[Grant Neeley]

Post removed by author

[gcclax33]

Mr. Neeley,

While I wish those records were accurate - I do not think they are. We had some confusion at the meeting, and had to repick if I remember correctly.

If those records were right, then Grove City would have a great shot at the playoffs still - except for the fact that we didn't play Taylor, and you have them listed as aprt of our conference schedule.

We need more accurate records.

Evan Feinberg
Grove City

[jimh3983]

I agree with Evan, the list posted by Mr. Neeley looks like the first pick. Mr. Sharp seems to have the right teams on his post because, those are the teams we did not have to play.

Jim Holleran
President
IUP MENS LAX

[Grant Neeley]

Ok, I know there were two draws because the first was messed up. I'll call Andy and Owen today to make sure we have the correct ones.
Andy may be correct in his assessment.

[Grant Neeley]

1. Record in required CCLA games
2. Head-to-head record
3. Goal Differential

This is the formula used last year and will be used this year since no change was voted on during the fall meeting per the CCLA By-laws.

[Grant Neeley]

Standings as of 4/23
Indiana-PA: 6W - 0L
Calvin: 5W - 1L
Ferris: 4W - 2L
Taylor: 2W - 2L (GVSU 4/22, Hope 4/23)
Grove City: 2W - 4L
GVSU: 1W - 3L (2 left - Taylor 4/22, Hope 4/23)
Hope: 0W - 4L (GVSU TBD, Taylor 4/23)
MI-Dearborn: 0W - 6L

Please contact me with corrections and scores, so I can post seedings as soon as possible.

The above is based on the following games NOT COUNTING.
Ball State - Hope, Calvin
Calvin - Ball State, Ferris
Ferris - Calvin, Grove City
GVSU - Indiana-PA, MI-Dearborn
Grove City - Ferris, Taylor
Hope - Ball State, MI-Dearborn
Indiana-PA - GVSU, Taylor
MI-Dearborn - GVSU, Hope
Taylor - Grove City, Indiana-PA

[Andy Sharp]

Looking at the games left and the current standings, please let me know if I'm wrong, we can already determine the seedings for the B tourney, because our head to head games resolve any ties the could develop this weekend.

#1 Indiana U of PA
#2 Calvin
#3 Ferris State
#4 Taylor

The game times are looking like 5:30 or 6 pm Friday with the second game 45 minutes later, so around 8pm. It's assumed that the further travelling teams will play the later game and they will all be played on Mehney Field, the field right on the lake in front of the EGR Middle School.

Championship is at Mehney Field also and is looking like it will be around 7 or 8pm Saturday night, under the lights.

Here is an overview of the facilities.


Grant, Owen, Lisa, and Robbie are working on other details that should get publicised by Sunday.

A Few of the Tens of Hotel Options
Best Western
4101 28th St SE, Grand Rapids, MI (3.44 miles away) 616-942-2550
30 rooms being held till Tuesday night - ask for the CCLA Lacrosse Tournament, rate = $61/night, breakfast included

Radisson Hotel
270 Ann St NW, Grand Rapids, MI (4.49 miles away) 616-363-9001
30 rooms being held - $69/night, ask for the CCLA Lacrosse Tournment Rate, breakfast is not included

Courtyard-Grand Rapids Airport
4741 28th St SE, Kentwood, MI (4.07 miles away) 616-954-0500
30 rooms are being held, ask for the CCLA Lacrosse Tournment rate, $64/night without breakfast, $74/night with breakfast