Div A Subdivisions

[KnoxVegas]

Last year, people thought I was crazy when I proposed relegation for this conference. Now, dare I say, I was a visionary. Thank you, A.J.

[Madlax16]

What smart comments are you talking about aj? Parents floating the bill?,it wasnt a smart comment it was a fact, the majority of our players are doing this all themselves for nothing more than the love of the game, so for me to see them work their butts off just to afford to play this great game, im going to do nothing less for them than to get them a season that REALLY matters. Im interested to see how the ideas posted here play out in the league meeting in the fall. Im not trying to make enemies in the conference, im just trying to do what every other team in our league does, look our for our best interest. Also, our team has met together and came to a unanimous decision, we want to play in the A division, so being VP im going to try and get what our team wants. Its my obligation.

[A.J. Stevens]

"A.J. Stevens wrote:

Illinois and lindenwood scored 20 goals on the 3rd seeded team during the regular season.


Well, then if the gap is that big I propose:

Div A
Illinois
Lindenwood


Div AA
Arkansas
Kansas
Illinois State
Iowa
Kansas State
Memphis
Nebraska
Mississippi
Missouri
Missouri State "

......HAHAHAH! YES.

That is a smart comment along with a smart response. Just my opinion but I do have a vote. Most of my guys pay their own way as well. Your problem is not unique in the MCLA.

Great empires all rise and fall. Cough cough lindenwood.

Another one considering you lost to Missouri State 15-0 & they lost to Lindenwood 18-0 in the regular season. Cough cough 33 goal differential cough cough Your only common opponent. In general you come of as smart most of the time you post in my opinion. Nebraska would be better off letting Dan speak for them.

[Madlax16]

It was a very funny post from what had been said earlier in the thread. I laughed my butt off. Just wish some people could take a joke.
And i know we didn't do great this year. Our record speaks for itself, we had a great first half of the season and a falling out the second half due to injuries and such. It happens, not an excuse for our record, but it didn't help any. We should have done better. I didn't not say that we would beat lindenwood, we have ALOT of work to do if that is our goal. I Just said that a program doesn't stay on top forever. They are a great team, but one day they may not win the conference title. Also, i do know you have a vote, i just hope that personal opinions on the boards wont sway them. I know where our program is right now and our goals that we have are all achievable by the up coming season.

[Arklax]

2 things:

Ole Miss has been testing the waters in 3 conferences, if they go elsewhere, we are down to 11. And gauging Memphis in talking with their players last year, they weren't ready to go up to A within 2 years (This of course begs the question of whether or not A teams will be allowed to compete in B. If they can, I assume Memphis will stay down. If they can't stay in B, then I'm not sure what Memphis will do.) IF we are down to 10 A-eligible teams, would we then still try and pursue a developmental division? Or would a 5-5 division split seem more reasonable, reducing the necessity for a developmental?

Also, I would imagine the ultimate goal would be to eliminate the "developmental" division. How often would it's necessity be evaluated?..annually? Hopefully within a few years we'll more than 6 stable, competitive programs.

[LaxRef]

Another one considering you lost to Missouri State 15-0 & they lost to Lindenwood 18-0 in the regular season. Cough cough 33 goal differential cough cough Your only common opponent. In general you come of as smart most of the time you post in my opinion. Nebraska would be better off letting Dan speak for them.

Pretty much everyone should know that sports results are non-transitive. How often have we seen A beat B, who beat C, but then C beats A. And you certainly can't conclude that if A played C they'd win by 33 goals.

[cjwilhelmi]

2 things:

Ole Miss has been testing the waters in 3 conferences, if they go elsewhere, we are down to 11.

Ole Miss owes the GRLC money so they must ask our permission before joining any other conference in the MCLA

And gauging Memphis in talking with their players last year, they weren't ready to go up to A within 2 years (This of course begs the question of whether or not A teams will be allowed to compete in B. If they can, I assume Memphis will stay down. If they can't stay in B, then I'm not sure what Memphis will do.)

Rumer mill says that the National body will vote to make A teams play in A and not be able to play down in B. Regardless, I will be pushing for this at the conference meeting.

IF we are down to 10 A-eligible teams, would we then still try and pursue a developmental division? Or would a 5-5 division split seem more reasonable, reducing the necessity for a developmental?

I really don't care how many are in Div A, as long as it is "club" ball there will be the need for the AA division. Don't think of it as much as developmental but for more teams being able to grow and compete against teams that have the same abilities/issues. As we have stated before its no fun to get blown out in games or be on the other side of it.

Also, I would imagine the ultimate goal would be to eliminate the "developmental" division. How often would it's necessity be evaluated?..annually? Hopefully within a few years we'll more than 6 stable, competitive programs.

The "ultimate goal" may be to eliminate the division, however this is not even part of my goals. It is my belief that we will always need it. Teams will go up and down throughout the course of several years. There are some teams who stay on top year in and year out (BYU, UCSB, Mich, CSU) but more often then not there are up and down years. The AA division will give teams having "down" years a chance to compete against teams of equal strength without putting themselves in a position to get blown out.

[beckner11]

From what I have seen over the years is when a team losses a couple early games and are basically put out of the playoff picture, those teams have a tendency to fall apart late in the season and don't finish the season strong.
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An easy solution to this would be to schedule more of your conference games later in the season that way there is always the reminder that there is something to prepare for and something still to play for...even if it's just a spoiler role!

[beckner11]

.

Being completely honest and at the risk of coming off as an ass - if you are worried about finances when scheduling games there are several other leagues you could go join and you are definetly not ready for the A division. .

Corbin,
I guess that means that Missouri State (one of the teams you say is "proven" isn't ready for A either then cause we have to worry about finances every season, and we do fundraising too! This doesn't mean that we can't compete. It does however mean that we have a strong vested interest in how the division splits due to travel!

[KnoxVegas]

I really don't care how many are in Div A, as long as it is "club" ball there will be the need for the AA division.

Are you speaking to the diffference between "club" and virtual varsity?

The "ultimate goal" may be to eliminate the division, however this is not even part of my goals. It is my belief that we will always need it.

Why is it that the GRLC will always need it when no other conference in the MCLA has one? The SELC started a Div. II back in 2000(?) but that was done away with within two or three years.

[A.J. Stevens]

Another one considering you lost to Missouri State 15-0 & they lost to Lindenwood 18-0 in the regular season. Cough cough 33 goal differential cough cough Your only common opponent. In general you come of as smart most of the time you post in my opinion. Nebraska would be better off letting Dan speak for them.

Pretty much everyone should know that sports results are non-transitive. How often have we seen A beat B, who beat C, but then C beats A. And you certainly can't conclude that if A played C they'd win by 33 goals.

I never said they would. I was pointing out that you should not throw rocks when you live in a glass house.

[scooter]

coach stevens:

I think you are suggesting that "unproven" teams such as Nebraska, Arkansas, Memphis, etc should play in the AA, and move up and down divisions based on a win/loss record. Please correct me if I am wrong

So hypothetically, Nebraska goes 8-5 in the AA next year, they move up to the official A division. What happens if they go 2-11 the next season? Do they get demoted back down? I'm just trying to understand your proposed system. If this is so, I think its foolish to not allow a team stability in the conference. Even if they post a poor record, if they make games, pay dues, and don't create problems, they should be allowed to stay.

[KnoxVegas]

A primer on relegation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promotion_and_relegation

[cjwilhelmi]

If this is so, I think its foolish to not allow a team stability in the conference. Even if they post a poor record, if they make games, pay dues, and don't create problems, they should be allowed to stay.

They aren't going anywhere. They are still in Div A just going to a subconference with the weaker teams. They still have a chance (under my addition to Coach Steven's proposal) of making the playoffs.

Guys, the Div AA is not fully a developmental league. It is a subdivision of Div A. Couple different ways to think of it. You have D1 Bowl Division Football and D1 Championship Division Football. We all know that it is all D1 football, they are in the same division, just different categories. We would, in essence, be doing the same thing. Would anyone argue that a top D1 Championship Division team be able to run Texas or USC or Ohio State? What we are doing is making that year's stronger teams play eachother and the weaker teams play eachother. We all agree that good competition will make the conference better. So why not do it? There will always be the better teams and the weaker teams in a large conference like ours. That is why we should always have it. The MCLA is still "club" ball and although some teams try to reach the virtual varsity level there will be those teams that still see it as "club".

Sports around the world (except for North America) do this on a regular basis (thanks Coach Ritz for that article). This allows teams of equal ability to compete against eachother, avoid major blowouts, and strengthen the conference as a whole. The English Premier League, arguably one of the greatest sports organizations in the world, does this every year. They do this to make sure the top teams are playing against each other every single year.

Beckner, if you new in May who would be in your subdivision you would be able to budget correctly for entire next season along with getting your scheduling done during the summer before the conference meeting. Every year, to my knowledge, the Div A has changed subdivision and what not. Under this plan you would have a firm subdivision year in and year out. If we setup geographical boundaries a single team could come in and disrupt everything. This way you know in May who your playing, since the team moving up and moving down would be announced shortly after the conference tournament.

[Madlax16]

They aren't going anywhere. They are still in Div A just going to a subconference with the weaker teams. They still have a chance (under my addition to Coach Steven's proposal) of making the playoffs.

I was told that if were in a sub- division less than seven then we do not have the AQ for nationals. Correct me if im wrong but i think the diference is that we have a LESSER chance than the A guys to have a bid for nationals. Having a sub-division less than seven elimintates us as a automatic qualifier for nationals. Something that the "A" division has.(the AQ) So though we have a "chance", our "chance" is much less than that of the standard A teams if we were to win conference. Im just trying to think for the bulk of our conference and not that of the few.


My question is why initiate something that has not been set up in ANY other conference in our league? If it is so detrimental to our conference, then why has the wcll and selc run fine with having teams of all calibers in the same conference without sub divisions? And they have had a solid conference for way longer than our conference has been in existance. It sounds to me like 2 teams in our league are pressing for this and the good half of our conference is opposed. So why even try? I mean again were looking out for our conference as a whole, and apparently not the agendas of the few. Just my thoughts.