PNCLL Week #1 (1/30-2/5) -- Predict/Report Scores/Discuss

[Tyler Baumann]

33 combined penalties and 8 goals combined in the UPS v SOU game!!!??! Let the boys play, this is Men's College Lacrosse not High School JV...........

[Dan Wishengrad]

33 combined penalties and 8 goals combined in the UPS v SOU game!!!??! Let the boys play, this is Men's College Lacrosse not High School JV...........

Were you at the game, Tyler? I was not. If the teams were playing "clean" and under control, I agree this sounds like alot of flags being thrown. But If guys were playing out of control it might not have been enough!

Part of coaching and playing intelligently is to see what kind of game the refs are calling and to make adjustments accordingly. If the refs are whistling late avoidable body-checks early in the game, for instance, it would be foolish to keep hitting late all game long. If they are calling "back checks" consistently, you'd be wise to clean up and control your stick-checks. Hard to say in this case without reviewing a game film.

"Safe, fun and fair" is a lacrosse ref's credo. Protecting the safety of the players is most important, and sometimes the zebras just have to throw a lot of laundry to try to keep things from getting out of hand -- whether it is a game between 8th graders or between college men.

[GrizLens]

As long as they are calling it both ways, no worries. It's that dang handicapping that gets me riled up.

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

I was at the game, and it was very clear from the beginning that the refs were going to flag anything that appeared "out of control" as far as stickwork goes. It appeared to me that they were calling the game extremely tight, but it seemed to be consistent at both ends. I know "back checks" are an emphasis this season, but any hard check that got pads or player and not his stick was called.

Do I like watching a game with 33 penalties? Absolutely not. It was hard to watch. But to me it certainly looked like the officials were consistent with their flags - calling just about any check that didn't get stick or glove.

If I was Mark or Kyle, coaching in that game. . .two things would have happened. I would have pleaded with my players to stop with the unnecessary stick checks. . .and I would have been bitching about most of the calls that went against my team.

I can certainly understand why players from both teams, especially SOU (20 of the 33 penalties) would be a little frustrated at the end of that game. There was not a lot of 6v6 played in that one. . .

[SouLax#1]

I think that it would be great if the PNCLL started to think of itself as a serious league, and the referees started to call the games as so... players who work their asses off to become solid, physical, and aggressive defenders should not be held back by fear of hurting the team effort by drawing ticky-tack penalties...Lacrosse is a violent game, everyone who joins a team is aware of this, it is not for the faint of heart or the easily breakable...IF the PNCLL wishes to join the nations elite of lacrosse organizations, then it must begin to allow its players to play to the best of their abilities...Has anyone ever heard of a NCAA Div I, II, or III game with anywhere near 33 penalties???(SOU@UPS) such an extreme discrepency in amount of calls cannot be explained soley by the manner of play(which was aggressive but not uncontrolled), but rather the point of view of those pulling the flags...I am a senior, and i am not saying this for my own benefit but rather the future of this league that has brought me so much joy...it is in the best interest of the league and the sport to address this blatent problem now, for the sake of the future of west coast lacrosse

[Steno]

something else odd about this league that I've noticed is the choice of a "penalty du jour." what's up with choosing a certain penalty to watch each season? wouldn't it make more sense just to ref the games fairly in all aspects, rather than cracking down so specifically?

[Tyler Baumann]

Sorry, but just because some people like slow, lazy, unathletic lacrosse, and cry when someone bigger than them knocks them flat on their backs, doesn't mean that is the way the game should be played. It's a joke, it really is go back east and watch a D1 game. The speed and intensity at which it is played is something the PNCLL should strive for. It is the way the game should be played, penalties should not be thrown for someone being bigger than the competition, or someone getting knocked onto the ground. Watch how hard players check at the varsity level, and all the things that never get called. Playing with Snell and Jamison I saw so many weak calls that would never get called back east. Sorry if I hurt all the weenie kids feelings who play hackee sack lacrosse and can't run a mile cause they are out of shape, but this lacrosse not finger painting.

And no Dan I wasn't there, but the statistics from the game, combined with my lovely memories of trying to win a game when you have 20 man down situations. Leaves me all warm and fuzzy inside, knowing that the trend is still running strong.

[Hi-Line Lax]

SOU plays physical lacrosse. Early in the year this will draw a ton of penalties when things aren't so clean, duh. Playing physical all the time has both benefits and drawbacks. I'm with Jason here, I'd be pleading to my guys to knock it off (which I'm sure Mark was)... but something tells me the guys at SOU just can't stop sometimes. I know that was true for Tyler last year in our playoff game...

[Kyle Berggren]

Most penalties could have been avoided...

9 pushes w/ possession
1 early release
1 too many men
1 illegal stick that waived a goal
1 interference
2 Conduct 30's
1 Unsportsmanlike
2 Hold's

That's 18 of the penalties, all of which are pretty cut and dry. If we hit a guy in the back trying to push him out of bounds & he falls down, they're going to flag it all the time. We were really bad getting into player's backs all game. That knocks the penalty count down to a more reasonable level, the rest of the penalties were mainly slashes (10) and a mix of illegal body checks and x checks. On the sideline, we new the flag was coming before the ref through it, there were no real surprises. They were consistent. The game was called tight, we could have prevented a lot of turnovers & penalties. We'd tell all of our people that spent time in the box to calm down, they've been calling it like that all day.

As far as only 8 goals being scored, we were shut out in the first half. We even had a 30 second EMO with 6 shots. Both goalies played well in cage, but neither team had a ton of shots on goal. We missed the cage a ton & if we didn't place the shot perfectly, Boggess kicked it out of there like it didn't matter. I'm sure if we meet again in the playoffs it will be a higher scoring affair, but I've been a part of games with fewer penalties and been much more upset with the crew. I believe they were consistent & I'm not thinking too much about it. I talked briefly with Keith about it, & maybe if we didn't win I'd think about it differently, but 1/2 the penalties could have easily been avoided.

[GrizLens]

Sorry, but just because some people like slow, lazy, unathletic lacrosse, and cry when someone bigger than them knocks them flat on their backs, doesn't mean that is the way the game should be played. It's a joke, it really is go back east and watch a D1 game. The speed and intensity at which it is played is something the PNCLL should strive for. It is the way the game should be played, penalties should not be thrown for someone being bigger than the competition, or someone getting knocked onto the ground. Watch how hard players check at the varsity level, and all the things that never get called. Playing with Snell and Jamison I saw so many weak calls that would never get called back east. Sorry if I hurt all the weenie kids feelings who play hackee sack lacrosse and can't run a mile cause they are out of shape, but this lacrosse not finger painting.

And no Dan I wasn't there, but the statistics from the game, combined with my lovely memories of trying to win a game when you have 20 man down situations. Leaves me all warm and fuzzy inside, knowing that the trend is still running strong.

Wow... That's hard core, Yo.

[Mark Brown]

Kyle is correct that most of the penalities could have been avoided. I also agree that the refs were fairly consistent. What bothers me is when a game is called that tightly yet some very obvious penalities aren't called. This occurred on both teams. We could have easily had more calls against us that were clearly illegal and, in my opinion, more warranting of a flag than a lot of the calls that were made.

This is probably the first time I've ever actually agreed with Snell or Tyler in the last four years. Tyler is correct that a lot of calls that happen in the PNCLL would never be called in a NCAA game. I have tons of NCAA game tapes and am happy to share them.

That said, I truly appreciate the PNCLL refs and know that their job is very difficult. It is IMPOSSIBLE for 3 refs to see everything that happens between 20 guys on the field.

[TheBearcatHimself]

I agree that the style of lacrosse out West, both in the PNCLL and in the Oregon High Schools (the two leagues I have experience with), is much more limited in terms of allowed contact. If you body check someone it is pretty much a flag. If a slap check makes a noise it is a slash.

Our team has a very solid defenseman from New York who was basically hamstrung by the refereeing last season. He was livid with me when I would tell him to play more careful saying that none of the penalties he was called for would be called in New York. Now not having seen New York lacrosse who knows, but I know certain predecessors at Willamette Lax have laid the groundwork for our new defensemen to not be taken seriously.

But a game with 33 penalties used to only involve Willamette, with 25 being on us.

Now each game is a unique being, but I have to say that I'm going to have to side with Snell and Brown if they are saying too many ticky-tack calls were made. But in all reality, this was the first or second game of the season for these two teams and probably the first for these refs in particular. This sort of thing sorts itself out usually, and if a serious problem exists I am certain the necessary calls will be made.

[Sonny]

Please save the critiquing of the PNCLL officiating for the appropriate channels.

[Tyler Baumann]

edited again by the webmaster.

[Sonny]

some folks seem to need a refresher course...

1. KEEP IT CIVIL; DO NOT "FLAME"; ATTACKS ON MCLA TEAMS/CONFERENCES/PLAYERS NOT ALLOWED; NO CURSE WORDS ALLOWED
Do not personalize any post. Debate vs. flaming: This is a friendly place. Debate is encouraged, but flaming is not allowed. Flaming is personally attacking someone. For example, saying "Any idiot knows that isn't true" is flaming because the person was just called an idiot, while "I passionately disagree" is not flaming even though it's rather emotionally charged. “Attacks” on MCLA players, coaches, teams, conferences, referees, and/or administrators are not allowed under any circumstances. Finally no curse words are allowed on the message forums. Inserting characters for curse words is not an acceptable substitute!

Bottom line -- If you can’t make your point with out disparaging another member of the MCLA community, then do not make it on CollegeLAX. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

LINK:
http://forums.collegelax.us/viewtopic.php?t=27