PNCLL 2008 All-Conference

[Kyle Berggren]

Boggess played in 9 games... Does that knock him out of the running for All-Conference? I didn't realize he was gone (as we played them early), but he was much improved over last season & absolutely in contention for 1st team.

I won't comment on some of the other players on this list as of now, I'm still trying to work it out, but Extine, Boggess, Gallacher & Kim (WC) were on the top of my list last time I thought about it.

Don't get me wrong, @ attack, points help sort out the situation, but I look at game play & I'm torn at how I see players on different teams. From my team Petit & Karr have to be in the conversation, but Kim & Lee from Whitman are fantastic (and would start for any team), WOU is strong at attack (Simons especially on the crease), WWU has plenty of talent, t-chuck, & I don't know. I'm sure there will be plenty of debate after the votes are in, but pole looks pretty easy to me, goalies are simple as well, middie & attack get much more difficult after that.

[Kyle Berggren]

D1,

Attack: I think Blackmore & Towner are no brainers. After that, we'll see who gets the votes.

LSM: I haven't seen the UO player, but Manning as fantastic in the game against SSU. It's rare to see a player make that contribution at LSM in a game & it sounds like that's been the case all year.

Fogo: We don't seem to have another Turtle... Might be Sargent from UM. He was powerful, savvy on the ground & has the ability to score. Not many programs would turn him down.

I'm still trying to work out middie & defense... Lot's of parity across the board right now & dominance isn't really displayed simply in points at middie especially. It will be interesting to see who D1 coach's vote as 1st team. I'm curious because it's not easy as the level play in the PNCLL improves.

[TheBearcatHimself]

there's one stat that stands out a bit to me for the Div 2 this year and that's assists.

here's a breakdown of teams with players averaging over 2 assists per game:

Western Oregon - 4 players
Central Wash. - 3 players
UPS, SOU, Whitman, L &C - 1 player each

that's a ton of assisted goals for WOU & CWU... in the whole PNCLL-1 there are only 2 players averaging over 2 assists per game (Phillips of OSU who has played in only 5 games and Janicki of Gonzaga at 2.0 APG).
Last year there were only 4 D2 players to have this stat and only 2 in D1. I know there's the whole "play better team ball" argument, but most Div 1 teams play pretty good team ball.

I haven't seen any Div 2 teams this year so this is really just food for thought... feel free to enlighten me.

Kevin! You're not implying that this could possibly be the fault of the scorekeepers, are you?

(NB: This is my first time ever using an emoticon. I felt that for this post, the time had finally come. Let us hope that it's the last.)

LOL, emoticons, assist controversy, deft sarcasm, with the quote that may be my favorite post in collegelax history.

Kevin, don't you remember that the PNCLL D2 is a magical land where assists rain down silky smooth and coat the landscape with a thick, chocolately texture sweet to the taste and cool to the touch?

Matt, if you would like to send your scorekeeper down to Salem to enter the new "Assist Recognition Training Program" it costs $20 which gets your scorekeeper a monacle with a bifocal lens, a journal to record thoughts and emotions, and a wish.

[TheBearcatHimself]

Midfield:
Bludorn (WWU)
Bohince (WOU)
Mehl (CWU)
I think Schuit is the traditional pick, but I thought Bludorn added more to their team. Bohince does EVERYTHING for WOU.

Will, i agree with you that Ian is a huge utility to our program, but i find it a shame to discredit Kyle McWhirter (the #3 scorer in PNCLL Div. 2) and put him before Ian. I personally would Kyle as 1st team, & Ian as 2nd even though they are both great middies.

Attack:
Davis (WOU)
Addington (WOU)
Butterwegge (WOU) (glad two of these three will be gone next year)
Kim (WC)
White (SOU)
de Raoulx (CWU)
Kummert (WU) (can't I mention my own guy if he leads the league in GPG??)

On this point Will, i also disagree with you. Calvin Davis is & has been one of the top scorers in the PNCLL all season. Now, i know that this is a tough section to choose in, but he is now # 1 and has been for a bit and i feel that this credits him for 1st team.

I do see your logic in your decisions Will, but i honestly feel that when comparing players on our team those should stand out as my disagreements with you.

Mark, you are right I was really splitting hairs. I kinda wanted to point out sort of "non-traditional" names assuming that McWhirter was the known quantity. I mean 59 points?? That's so old news. I need something fresh like Ian.

And my logic on the WOU attack was simply that they are all so good that they cancel each other out. I don't know if Josh and Nick have ever gotten the respect they deserve, and Davis, well he just scores and scores and then scores some more. This league is at no shortage of talented attackmen.

[Hi-Line Lax]

I wasn't necessarily trying to call anybody out about the assist stats, for all I know it's a reality. I know assists are easier to get in D2 (though still sweet like chocolate ). I guess I just thought this was interesting, especially compared to last year... assists are really hard to get, and WOU and CWU seem to get a ton of them. If that's just how it is, cool then, but statistically it's a bit of a phenomenon. Take a look at the archives on PNCLL.com through 2005 (before that the stats are pretty awful) and it just doesn't happen very often that players average over 2 assists per game. I've never seen it happen to 3 or 4 guys on the same team.

**BTW, these numbers could be totally accurate (I have no idea) and I don't mean to take anything away from the teams or to get into a pointless argument. Just some food for thought... I like stats.

[nhoskins]

I wasn't necessarily trying to call anybody out about the assist stats, for all I know it's a reality. I know assists are easier to get in D2 (though still sweet like chocolate ). I guess I just thought this was interesting, especially compared to last year... assists are really hard to get, and WOU and CWU seem to get a ton of them. If that's just how it is, cool then, but statistically it's a bit of a phenomenon. Take a look at the archives on PNCLL.com through 2005 (before that the stats are pretty awful) and it just doesn't happen very often that players average over 2 assists per game. I've never seen it happen to 3 or 4 guys on the same team.

**BTW, these numbers could be totally accurate (I have no idea) and I don't mean to take anything away from the teams or to get into a pointless argument. Just some food for thought... I like stats.

I agree, Kevin. I went back through the stat archives and Rick Kladis averaged 3 or more assists per game from 2002-2005. His "down" year was 2.5 assists per game. But having played against Rick, he was a different kind of player in this league, as pure a feeder from X as I've seen. I'm looking forward to Final Four, it'd be a nice throwback to see some more players that assist that often. Then again, might be another case of creative stat keeping...

[WOULAX21]

Mark, you are right I was really splitting hairs. I kinda wanted to point out sort of "non-traditional" names assuming that McWhirter was the known quantity. I mean 59 points?? That's so old news. I need something fresh like Ian.

And my logic on the WOU attack was simply that they are all so good that they cancel each other out. I don't know if Josh and Nick have ever gotten the respect they deserve, and Davis, well he just scores and scores and then scores some more. This league is at no shortage of talented attackmen.

Will, you are totally right LOL. Sorry to overlook what i didn't realize was a given. Just trying to keep a neutral stance, & we both know that is tough when discussing your own players. See ya tomorrow.

[westlax]

Boggess played in 9 games... Does that knock him out of the running for All-Conference? I didn't realize he was gone (as we played them early), but he was much improved over last season & absolutely in contention for 1st team.

I think Boggess would be higher up on my list if he were to play last weekend. It’s hard for a player at any position to get conference recognition when they only play half of their conference games. Some teams will have had no look at him and would be basing their decision as hearsay.

[nhoskins]

Boggess played in 9 games... Does that knock him out of the running for All-Conference? I didn't realize he was gone (as we played them early), but he was much improved over last season & absolutely in contention for 1st team.

I'd have a hard time awarding someone who quit on their team. I understand he has his reasons, but sticking it out for the last month of the season would have been the right thing to do. No one from L&C is going to win an award because they quit the league, Boggess did the same.

That being said, it's a shame for the league to lose what sounds like a standout young keeper.

[WOULAX21]

I guess I just thought this was interesting, especially compared to last year... assists are really hard to get, and WOU and CWU seem to get a ton of them. If that's just how it is, cool then, but statistically it's a bit of a phenomenon. Take a look at the archives on PNCLL.com through 2005 (before that the stats are pretty awful) and it just doesn't happen very often that players average over 2 assists per game. I've never seen it happen to 3 or 4 guys on the same team.

I do see your comparison but still, when a team is winning by at least 10 points for at least 8 games in a season, the assists have to come from somewhere. When a program is playing a well rounded offense, there will be many assists as well as unassisted goals. Once again, i understand your comparison, i would just like to enlighten you on why some players are achieving such high stats.

[Hi-Line Lax]

thanks for the enlightenment... I forgot I guess how big our margins used to be... something like 24-3 over WOU last year (couldn't help myself, sorry).

We still never had anybody average over 2 assists per game on the season. I guess I'll have to learn how to put in a more well rounded offense. If you're guys have pulled this off it's a tremendous accomplishment... but a bit suspect to me.

On another note... love how good the "B" guys have been playing this year, seriously. I'm really looking forward to seeing the Final Four in Missoula soon.

[WOULAX21]

thanks for the enlightenment... I forgot I guess how big our margins used to be... something like 24-3 over WOU last year (couldn't help myself, sorry).

We still never had anybody average over 2 assists per game on the season. I guess I'll have to learn how to put in a more well rounded offense. If you're guys have pulled this off it's a tremendous accomplishment... but a bit suspect to me.

I thought of this immediately after i posted that reply. You are correct. You guys did take us to the house last year, but if it was an issue of us using the table staff #'s and not reviewing the tape as coaches and then entering stats, that would be one thing. I think when you see us at the Final Four at your house, you won't recognize us as WOU from last year, so unfortunately i find that as a sketchy comparison. Remember, unlike your program of last year, we don't have the numbers to pull our starters once we are up by 10. We have a limited group of players that MUST continue to play the whole game even after we have a significant lead (even tho this does increase their stats).

[Hodgee24]

I wasn't necessarily trying to call anybody out about the assist stats, for all I know it's a reality. I know assists are easier to get in D2 (though still sweet like chocolate ). I guess I just thought this was interesting, especially compared to last year... assists are really hard to get, and WOU and CWU seem to get a ton of them. If that's just how it is, cool then, but statistically it's a bit of a phenomenon. Take a look at the archives on PNCLL.com through 2005 (before that the stats are pretty awful) and it just doesn't happen very often that players average over 2 assists per game. I've never seen it happen to 3 or 4 guys on the same team.

**BTW, these numbers could be totally accurate (I have no idea) and I don't mean to take anything away from the teams or to get into a pointless argument. Just some food for thought... I like stats.

Honestly who cares about the assist average, you can have a high assist average or even a high goal average but that doesn't necessarily make you one of the best players in the league. As I am sure you know, it is the small things that make you a better player and ultimately decide games. Such as middies who can play both ends of the field rather than just O, attackmen who can ride on clears and gain an extra possession because of it, the stats may not reflect it individually but it sure shows up on the win column. These players should be looked at as well.

[nhoskins]

I wasn't necessarily trying to call anybody out about the assist stats, for all I know it's a reality. I know assists are easier to get in D2 (though still sweet like chocolate ). I guess I just thought this was interesting, especially compared to last year... assists are really hard to get, and WOU and CWU seem to get a ton of them. If that's just how it is, cool then, but statistically it's a bit of a phenomenon. Take a look at the archives on PNCLL.com through 2005 (before that the stats are pretty awful) and it just doesn't happen very often that players average over 2 assists per game. I've never seen it happen to 3 or 4 guys on the same team.

**BTW, these numbers could be totally accurate (I have no idea) and I don't mean to take anything away from the teams or to get into a pointless argument. Just some food for thought... I like stats.

Honestly who cares about the assist average, you can have a high assist average or even a high goal average but that doesn't necessarily make you one of the best players in the league. As I am sure you know, it is the small things that make you a better player and ultimately decide games. Such as middies who can play both ends of the field rather than just O, attackmen who can ride on clears and gain an extra possession because of it, the stats may not reflect it individually but it sure shows up on the win column. These players should be looked at as well.

It's hard to see those intangible things though, especially if you're an opposing coach or fan. As a coach, I see a lot of the intangibles that my guys do that other people may not necessarily see because they don't see that guy at practice everyday. And when I coach against a team, I'm not necessarily focused on their role players either, when there are brighter more obvious stars to watch.

Points matter because a lot of the time, thats all there is to compare two guys on paper. If you don't have tape, or play a team early in the season, you may not necessarily remember who another team's studs were. But if you see a guy scored 3 goals and had 4 assists, well he's gonna stand out to you more on paper than the guy who burned you on rides all day but didn't score a point.

[WOULAX21]

I agree with you Nathan in saying that on paper, points are what matter. Plenty of players however, are being overlooked, even tho they are on paper as top scorers. I feel that many of my players have been over looked for the last couple of seasons & this season as they have year end & year out been in the top point scorers (& defensively) point stoppers.

Blair, hands down is the best keeper in the PNCLL Div. 2. He has a 67% save percentage! This is incredible. Not saying he doesn't have competition but to be 1st team you have to be the best IN THE GAME and that he is.

Our starting attack are all top 25 scorers. This is not any of their first time for this accolade either. Josh Butterwegge has continually been in here every season since 2005. Does this deserve something? Nick Addington has also shown himself in this place as well many many times. As for Calvin Davis, like i said earlier in this thread, he is & has been one of the top scorers in the PNCLL all season. Once again i feel that this deserves something. I'm not saying that these guys aren't without competition either as there are many talented attackmen in our league. I just feel that i must defend their achievements.

Our Midfield also has some very talented players that have made their mark on the 2008 season. Once again, Kyle McWhirter has and continues to be a dominant threat in the D2 game. Almost every game, the opposing team has thrown their LPM on him to lock off, or even had a pole leave another attackman to guard him from the top. Ian Bohince has been a known force as both a FOGO & midfielder. Once again, these players are DEFINITELY not without stiff competition but i feel that their achievements cannot go unnoticed.