Div AA Playoffs

[DRich17]

correct me if i am mistaken but I was also under the impression that k state is also on probation. in addition to that Iowa has overcome great obstacles in which they had to pay a $2000 fine for mistakes made last year. In how many ways can we be penalized? its quite hard to overcome such a huge fine espcecially when we were already having financial issues. Isnt banning Iowa from the playoffs negating the conferences intention of increasing competition and incorporating a developmental division such as the AA. Adding this additional barrior for the team to be succesfull will only hurt Iowa's chances of overcomig the developmental stage and becoming a competitor like schools like Lindenwood and Illinois. i really hope that what AJ proposes is not the case.

With some of the other issues that exist within the conference, issues which I have seen NCAA programs penalized for (let's say violating recruiting rules, for example) I would really hate to see Iowa or KState excluded. I think it would come off as unfair, and exclusionary. I'm open to ideas here.

Hard work on the field deserves an earned playoff spot... I can understand there coudl be exceptions, but I would hate to see that be the case.

Why would these 2 teams be on probation, AJ?

[cjwilhelmi]

With some of the other issues that exist within the conference, issues which I have seen NCAA programs penalized for (let's say violating recruiting rules, for example) I would really hate to see Iowa or KState excluded. I think it would come off as unfair, and exclusionary. I'm open to ideas here.

Hard work on the field deserves an earned playoff spot... I can understand there coudl be exceptions, but I would hate to see that be the case.

Why would these 2 teams be on probation, AJ?

Both teams failed to play all of their required conference games last year. This was discussed at the fall meeting. For further information please consult the representative from Missouri State that was at the meeting.

On a side note, I would love to hear what you think "some other issues" that exist are. Please email me offline at cjwilhelmi@yahoo.com.

[DRich17]

so what constitutes a failure to miss a conference game? Forfeiting a conference game is penalized? I know Iowa and KState were not the only teams to cancel either, so what was different about their case?

And why do you keep telling me to contact my team rep. What's wrong with asking about it on a college lacrosse forum?

[FeartheFlow]

Couldn't you say that a big reason those teams didn't play their games is because they were involved in a faulted system last year? And didn't the conference admit it was a faulted system by creating the AA division? Did anybody in the conference truly believe the lower tier teams had any business spending a thousand dollars to get clobbered by more established teams such as Lindenwood and Illinois? I understand the rules, but I also understanding looking at situations rationally and individually and not allowing bureaucracy getting in the way. It's easy for people with Lindenwood and Illinois ties for example to not understand what it's like for money to be an issue. $2000 was an absurd amount to begin with, not so much the number in and of itself, but the number, but the proportionally to team's in AA's budgets.

The AA division was created to help teams...it was an admittance of previous fault in a system...it was a way to help these teams get better. $2000 wasn't enough? There can't be an exception since these teams changed division based on the premise that the games they were forced to play were hazardous for their programs? It's a unique situation, and should be treated as so, not in a "well this is the way it has always been done" sort of way. The conference is not against looking a situation as unique as proven with the AA division, and they have proven the ability to look at things with a rational viewpoint...the same should be done in this scenario

[Jolly Roger]

Couldn't you say that a big reason those teams didn't play their games is because they were involved in a faulted system last year? And didn't the conference admit it was a faulted system by creating the AA division? Did anybody in the conference truly believe the lower tier teams had any business spending a thousand dollars to get clobbered by more established teams such as Lindenwood and Illinois? I understand the rules, but I also understanding looking at situations rationally and individually and not allowing bureaucracy getting in the way. It's easy for people with Lindenwood and Illinois ties for example to not understand what it's like for money to be an issue. $2000 was an absurd amount to begin with, not so much the number in and of itself, but the number, but the proportionally to team's in AA's budgets.

The AA division was created to help teams...it was an admittance of previous fault in a system...it was a way to help these teams get better. $2000 wasn't enough? There can't be an exception since these teams changed division based on the premise that the games they were forced to play were hazardous for their programs? It's a unique situation, and should be treated as so, not in a "well this is the way it has always been done" sort of way. The conference is not against looking a situation as unique as proven with the AA division, and they have proven the ability to look at things with a rational viewpoint...the same should be done in this scenario

These teams must abide by the rules that existed at the time of their indescretion. The conference did address the issue (poorly in my opinion) and that is now the policy on a go forward basis.

I guess your a fan of the government bailing out people who signed up for ridiculous mortgages as well.


I think the AA designations does 2 harmful things.
1.) It allow powerful teams to avoid having to "waste" a date on less developed teams who in my opinion need to see the level of play to which they should aspire and;
2.) Coddles teams that apparently were unable or unwilling to meet the requirements of their conference and by extension the MCLA.

[Michael Martin]

From the GRLC Executive Board Spring 2007 Meeting, the following actions were taken for the 2007-2008 season:

Missouri - Administrative probation
Iowa - Disciplinary probation and a fine

Kansas State was discussed and no further action was taken.

[scooter]

From the GRLC Executive Board Spring 2007 Meeting, the following actions were taken for the 2007-2008 season:

Missouri - Administrative probation
Iowa - Disciplinary probation and a fine

Kansas State was discussed and no further action was taken.

So Iowa is ineligible for conference playoffs?

[hawkeyelax]

just to clarify because apparantly I didnt take good enough notes at the fall meeting......why is K state eligible for playoffs and Iowa is not if they both missed scheduled conference games? in addition to that were they responsible for a $2000 fine (1/5 of our entire budget)?

[essn1064]

How does your team function with a $10k budget?

I believe the punishment should be harsh...to reinforce league play and legitimize the league

There has to be an accountability for teams... and the punishment was harsh but showed the team in question they need to get their act together or its over... and it looks that they have improved from their mistakes...But the Conference should not and wont back down from its decision which has been known to me since the league meeting

[hawkeyelax]

From the GRLC Executive Board Spring 2007 Meeting, the following actions were taken for the 2007-2008 season:

Missouri - Administrative probation
Iowa - Disciplinary probation and a fine

Kansas State was discussed and no further action was taken.

Just a quick question about how the league functions? How does the league deal with authority? What constitutes a matter that will be voted on by the Exec Board vs the entire conference? I guess what my real question is, would it have been possible for Iowa to appeal the decision at the past fall meeting? I know that its too late now but im curious to how things are generally approached for future references.

[NELAX21]

I think the AA designations does 2 harmful things.
1.) It allow powerful teams to avoid having to "waste" a date on less developed teams who in my opinion need to see the level of play to which they should aspire and;
2.) Coddles teams that apparently were unable or unwilling to meet the requirements of their conference and by extension the MCLA.

I don't really agree with this statement. I think that developing teams do need to see they level of play that they should be aspiring to play at, But for teams to be forced to travel 8 hours to play a game that they know they are going to get killed is very hard to motivate players to go on the trip.(i have had to do it and it is very frustrating) I am not saying that i am for just not going to those games when they are required conference games or any game for that matter. I think the I-AA helps these teams play at the same level while building there programs, and if they want to challenge themselves and play better teams then they can if they choose, and most of the teams did choose to play the I-A schools. K-State is playing Kansas and played Lindenwood already, Iowa played Missouri and Missouri State, Arkansas and Memphis both played Missouri State, Ole Miss played Missouri state and SMU, We tried to schedule Mizzou, and played Texas Tech and are going to Illinois and Illinois State this weekend.

The I-AA was not made because teams were unable to meet requirements, it was more because there were 3 teams (Arkansas, Memphis, and Nebraska) who were playing in D-II and were national mandated to move up to DI. This was the best option that our conference came up with to be fair to all of the teams.

[Jolly Roger]

I don't really agree with this statement. I think that developing teams do need to see they level of play that they should be aspiring to play at, But for teams to be forced to travel 8 hours to play a game that they know they are going to get killed is very hard to motivate players to go on the trip.(i have had to do it and it is very frustrating)

Dan,

Maybe developing teams need to look at the 8 hour trip as an investment in their future. Montana players have cited their embarassing losses in the PNCLL as motivation to get better and they have done so without a "special designation" within their conference. I think a team in this position needs to look for success in areas other than the scoreboard. Did you run your clear effectively, did you improve in you individual defense, did your team become a more cohesive unit while on the road?

The I-AA was not made because teams were unable to meet requirements, it was more because there were 3 teams (Arkansas, Memphis, and Nebraska) who were playing in D-II and were national mandated to move up to DI. This was the best option that our conference came up with to be fair to all of the teams.

According to an earlier post, the fault for Iowa's failure to meet the requirements was in the system. The system has been changed (adding D1AA) and now everyone is happier. My question based on your assertion is why were those 3 teams playing at D2?

BTW, there was never a national mandate stating that D1 designated schools couldn't play in a conference's D2, they would just not be eligible for D2 awards or national postseason, nor would games against them count toward another D2 teams out of conference requirement.

[FeartheFlow]

You're correct...it should be that way in an ideal situation, but for players who are paying their own way, it makes you wonder if it is a wise investment of your time and money to travel 8 hours to get soundly beaten..

It is great to try to make the conference as competitive as possible and as "division one" like as possible, but we can't pretend that these are players who getting paid to play lax in the form of scholarship, and thus, we have to act accordingly.

[beckner11]

For further information please consult the representative from Missouri State that was at the meeting.

On a side note, I would love to hear what you think "some other issues" that exist are. Please email me offline at cjwilhelmi@yahoo.com.

For the record, Missouri State's rep. (myself) is no longer affiliated with the team in such a role, therefore Dustin is trying to step into such a role and in doing so he has questions.... as would anyone in such a position!

[Jolly Roger]

It is great to try to make the conference as competitive as possible and as "division one" like as possible, but we can't pretend that these are players who getting paid to play lax in the form of scholarship, and thus, we have to act accordingly.

You'd be surprised at the small amount of $$ many D1 lacrosse players receive. Very rarely is it a full scholarship. The 12.5 scholarship (and less at some institutions) are generally spread throughout a large number of player on the roster. Most of the D1 guys aren't paying, but there are D1 programs with very little institutional support beyond facilities that need to fundraise to make ends meet.

...it makes you wonder if it is a wise investment of your time and money to travel 8 hours to get soundly beaten.

At what point is it worth the trip? To lose by 10, 6, 3? Maybe only if you think you can win. You're stepping onto a slippery slope.