Running up the score/sportsmanship

[primetime21]

there has been some talk recently about a particular game that was played in the pncll over the weekend that i feel warrants a discussion.

*How does running up the score affect both teams involved?
*is it a slap in the face of the losing team to have your opponents just stand there and not shoot for an entire half, or would you expect them to play hard and if you can't stop them than its your problem?

i have been on both sides of this situation, on one hand if a team is working on there offense and keeps scoring, if it is not malicious(continued 1 on 1's) then a lopsided game is not bad. its when a team gets cocky starts talking and one on ones are overused to pad stats. i understand that some games can get out of hand, but if the sportsmanship is there it should be fine.

I for one hated standing their when we were down, the other team gave us no chance to compete and took the game completely away from us, grant it it was up to us to take the ball, but when we are outmatched and there isn't much we can do then whats the point of finishing the game if its really only a glorified practice for one team.

[horn17]

I dont know what game your referencing to, but let me shed some light on how I perceive this.

In the past at UMD, we had the "Princeton Standard" of not breaking 19. Over the years, I realized that it was more of a slap to stop at 19, shoot wide, and just try to run the clock down - as if saying "we can score if we want, but we wont because the game is out of hand.." - to me this is worse. Its almost like taunting your opponent. Now some people initially complained when we said no more "stopping" - and thought it was a lack of class at one point. However, these individuals never did get "punched in the mouth" against great competition. I remember games vs. CSU one year 22-4 (something like that at the O in Ann Arbor). IT SUCKS, but ITS WHERE YOU WANT YOUR PROGRAM TO BE, AND SOMETIMES TOUGH LESSONS ARE THE BEST LESSONS.

I believe that sometimes you will take a beating, and its up to your players to respond to the moment - or force them to improve. Is it embarrassing, yes, but at the same time, we all strive to be the best programs we can.

Now, trying to lead the nation in points against teams that aren't as skilled is a different burrito to unwrap all together. I dont like the starters in at 5 minutes to go in the 4th in a 15 goal game...that is a different story - and in that situation, the coach is asking for something bad to happen - I do believe in Karma.

I also coach a HS team, my philosophy for them (as its my team, and Im the head coach) - we will keeping doing what we do, and its not our fault that their coach didn't prepare them properly. This isn't a game you can just walk out on the field and play without preparation. Obviously I like to work in younger players, that might "ease the bloodshed".... but at the same time - you play the game at 110% at all times...easing up is not in my vocab.

[Gvlax]

http://mcla.us/game.cfm?conferenceid=7&divisionid=4&seasonid=4&gameid=3993

I believe this is the game, and i see the coach changed the game description.

[byualum]

If you don't want to get beat badly, get better.

[laxfan25]

One thing I can say from years of experience is that in lacrosse, a slight difference in skill level will get magnified on the scoreboard. A large goal differential in and of itself isn't bad - it's the way it is delivered that makes a difference. If the better team is acting like "they've been there before", rather than hooting and hollering after every goal - those are the breaks.

I have seen some teams (more often in HS) where it is obvious that the big shooter is taking aim at defensemen, aiming at the goalie's head - all with a little sneer. You just hope that they get their comeuppance some day.

I think the most egregious thing I've seen was in a HS game last year - one team was pounding their outmanned opponent. One of the attackmen took a pass on the crease while he was wide open. Instead of just doing a little deke and dunk, he faces the goalie and brings the stick over his head with two hands, shooting down his back so the ball would bounce up between his legs and towards the goalie. Quite honestly it made me want to puke. It was gratifying to have them a few weeks later when they were put solidly back in their place.

Sportsmanship is not reflected in the margin of victory, but how you carry yourself on the field and after the game. In my lacrosse history one of the things I've always treasured about the game is that you played hard, but you played fair and with honor. When I lined up for a handshake, it was always a nice firm, respectful gesture - not just a little glove bump and a few mumbled, unfelt syllables. I think this is one aspect of the game that has been diminished with the growth of the sport. Maybe it just reflects the influence of other sports, or maybe it is just the general coarsening of society - where F-bombs fly fast and loose, but the tradition of lacrosse sportsmanship is one that I hope all of us aspire to and coach to the teams that you are responsible for. It is a great game - let's honor it!

[primetime21]

those are great words!! i totally agree. however like you said it is today's society that brings on the showboating and hollaring. i hope i don't offend anybody but how much glory do you get embarassing another team in front of 100 fans, even 4 or 500 fans. no one really knows or seems to care, at least at the college level i don't hear cooler talk of the sick fake in the game over the weekend.

anyways getting off track. i understand the need to excite the game and add some pizzaz, but really? not at the expense of the other team. personally i did not fell like a winner after beating a team that was clearly unprepared for us, its almost like beating a dead horse. however it is up to the other coaches to prepare for the game, if they are not prepared the score can and does get out of hand. however class is the difference between respect and hated teams

[horn17]

agreed...

in the words of my mentor...

"Stay classy San Diego"....

[Frank Clark]

To add to coach Horns comments I feel that it is up to the coach and players to put a quality team on the field. If you cant do that then that is your issue and you need to work at it. As a player I would never want the other team to just not shoot because they didn't want to hurt my poor little feelings. That is more of an insult then scoring. If the second and third line can put up points on you then good for them. They also deserve the right to play at 100%.[/quote]

[Ryan Hanavan]

To add to coach Horns comments I feel that it is up to the coach and players to put a quality team on the field. If you cant do that then that is your issue and you need to work at it. As a player I would never want the other team to just not shoot because they didn't want to hurt my poor little feelings. That is more of an insult then scoring. If the second and third line can put up points on you then good for them. They also deserve the right to play at 100%.

I agree, everyone goes through "building and re-building years" and has to play conference opponents that are either perennial forces or in an up year. When the last guy on the other teams bench is dumping them in, you have to try and set mini-goals for both the defense and offense. Find things to keep your team up. I went through it in my first year at Idaho last season. Put some plans together for situations and prepare your guys for them in practice. In situations like this it's almost better to pull everything apart and just start drilling the fundamentals in practice. Making everyone at least more confident when they step out on the field.

Nobody likes being there but tasting that blood on your lip after getting punched should sting enough to make you stand back up and dig back into the playbook and look for ways to improve. That and a little HGH.

[LaxRef]

There are many subtleties here. The key points have already been made:

*There are major differences between scoring when you're ahead and scoring and rubbing it in when you're ahead.

*There are major differences between scoring with your fourth string when you're ahead and scoring with your starters when you're ahead.

*If you don't want the other team to score so much, try to get better.

One point left unsaid so far is that the team that is ahead can use the time to practice new plays, work on new stuff against live competition, etc. Since they probably aren't as good at the new stuff, they won't score as much but will get something out of it.

BTW, I found the comment in the game report referenced above noteworthy:

A disgusting amount of penalties was called on both teams (penalties were evenly called, but that doesn't necessarily make it right), really limited the amount of good lacrosse that could be played.

What is absent is any claim that the teams did not commit a large number of fouls. I don't get this: is it disgusting to call a lot of penalties if the teams are in fact committing a large number of fouls? Could the large number of fouls be limiting the amount of good lacrosse that could be played rather than the officials calling the fouls?

Also, penalties need not be distributed evenly if the fouls are not distributed evenly!

[Frank Clark]

If you are playing somebody and have the game well in hand you may not want to show all of your stuff. You may want to just show your base offense and keep the new or other stuff for a new game.

[Chowdah Head]

I agree wholeheartedly that the score itself is not nearly as important as the manner in which the game was played. I played in the Pioneer League last year, and suffered 2 big losses to 2 different teams. I certainly won't name the teams, but both losses were by at least a 10 goal margin. One of the teams beat us out of sheer athleticism and talent, and had the utmost class in the game. They played clean and fair, and we just couldn't stop any of their lines.

In a different situation against a different team, we were down by over 10 at the half, but their starters remained in until well into the 4th quarter, taking any opportunity to go 1-on-1 and pelt our goalies. In addition, neither their players nor coaches showed any class, trash-talking and throwing cheap shots throughout the game (including one blatant foul which put me out of commission for the rest of that game and the following game). Moreover, I've talked to many other teams who have played them and they all share similar views, but I digress.

It comes down to respect. If two teams are playing their hearts out, showing a lot of class, and respecting the game and each other, it doesn't matter what the final score is. Let's just hope that every coach and player keeps that in mind.

[CP18]

Does this discussion not bring up memories for us long time message boarders, aka uslia.com threaded discussion topic days, about the Texas A&M teams of the late 90's early 2000's.

Every other day the thread was, "Texas A&M runs up the score, etc. etc."

Oh the good ol days!

[bste_lax]

Does this discussion not bring up memories for us long time message boarders, aka uslia.com threaded discussion topic days, about the Texas A&M teams of the late 90's early 2000's.

Every other day the thread was, "Texas A&M runs up the score, etc. etc."

Oh the good ol days!

I almost made a reference to this earlier today but decided against it. We just need a good Texas Tech goalie/too many saves thread and I am good to go this season.

[CATLAX MAN]

Does this discussion not bring up memories for us long time message boarders, aka uslia.com threaded discussion topic days, about the Texas A&M teams of the late 90's early 2000's.

Every other day the thread was, "Texas A&M runs up the score, etc. etc."

Oh the good ol days!

I almost made a reference to this earlier today but decided against it. We just need a good Texas Tech goalie/too many saves thread and I am good to go this season.

....and a WCLL team/too many assists thread would be the capper.